986, 987, 718, and Cayman
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By unBilt 987
#62151
So... years ago, I commissioned a shop to build me a customized Cayman meant to be a great all-in-one: fun weekend street car. DE car. And autocrosser.

Many major multi-year nightmares later... I no longer DE (moved on to arrive-and-drive racing). The car is predominantly used for cruising around on the street, and autocross events. As such, it's largely "overbuilt" - fixed back seats, rollbar, extensive brake cooling, etc. In addition, the initial setup (spring rates, shock valving) were set for DE/track use first, and autocross consideration second.

I've been working my way through the car (put softer springs on it last fall, etc) but I keep thinking about just starting fresh with a different car, and selling this one as-is since it's about as "track prepped" as one could make a 987.2 and finally what I would consider to be "sorted" from any kind of "problem" perspective. Just needs to be dialed in.

I've driven a bunch of 718 2.5L turbos. The torque is AWESOME for street and I'm certain would kill for autocross. But I fear these will be the red-headed stepchildren of the used Porsche market, so I hesitate to buy, fearing being "stuck" with it.

My dealer offered me an allocation last week on a 718 GTS 4.0. I played around with the configurator on the Porsche website. A somewhat low-ish optioned build (bucket seats, carbon trim, LED headlights, Entry&Drive, navigation) put me at $104k for a Boxster version. (Figure Boxster over Cayman just because it might make it even more enjoyable for the street)

I then, for fun, priced out a 718 Spyder. A few less options than the Spyder (bucket seats, carbon trim, CarPlay) put me at $107k. Seems like a no-brainer if it's Spyder vs. GTS.... basically getting a GT4 with a drop-top.

I've driven several 981 GT4s and been somewhat disappointed at the "soft" midrange. My 987.2's 3.4 with a tune and Fabspeed headers has WAY more mid-range punch - but it's also still nowhere near the 2.5 turbo.

I guess ultimately I can't decide where to go - continue plodding along with the 987.... or spring for new? Would either of those (GTS 4.0 or Spyder) really be great autocross cars given their ridiculously tall gearing? Has anyone driven one of these 4.0 cars, a 3.8 car (like a 981 GT4), and a 2.5L turbo car - and can comment on how the 4.0 fares in the mid-range department?
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By worf
#62159
To your last question: it'll be a couple of months yet before CarChick's Spyder arrives.

And the question you didn't ask: have you considered a 718 T? Yes, it's the 2.0 motor and it gives up top end that you'll notice on the highway. But, 'round town (and on the A-X, I assume) it gives away very little compared to the 2.5 (that I have driven at PEC ATL), 3.4 N.A. and the 991.1 3.8 N.A.

And it can be had, well-optioned as standard, for considerably less than the 4.0 or Spyder.

My 718 Cayman T has exceeded my expectations. Standard SPASM, PSE and various 718 suspension improvements relative to our now-sold 981 CS make a noticeable difference.

My plan is to A-X it this year.

One thing I would not do is get a 718 S 2.5 if the plan was to do any DEs; they've got a turbo heat problem. The 2.5 GTS and 2.0 motors do not.
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By AKSteve
#62284
I'm used to being able to negotiate maybe a 5-8% discount on Porsches when I'm car shopping. I've heard right now there are so few cars around that basically everything is going for MSRP. Do you guys have any info on the current market for a new Boxster Spyder/GT4/GTS?
By unBilt 987
#62377
worf wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:59 pm To your last question: it'll be a couple of months yet before CarChick's Spyder arrives.

And the question you didn't ask: have you considered a 718 T? Yes, it's the 2.0 motor and it gives up top end that you'll notice on the highway. But, 'round town (and on the A-X, I assume) it gives away very little compared to the 2.5 (that I have driven at PEC ATL), 3.4 N.A. and the 991.1 3.8 N.A.

And it can be had, well-optioned as standard, for considerably less than the 4.0 or Spyder.

My 718 Cayman T has exceeded my expectations. Standard SPASM, PSE and various 718 suspension improvements relative to our now-sold 981 CS make a noticeable difference.

My plan is to A-X it this year.

One thing I would not do is get a 718 S 2.5 if the plan was to do any DEs; they've got a turbo heat problem. The 2.5 GTS and 2.0 motors do not.
I did consider the T. In fact somewhat seriously for a little bit as I love what the T represents. I got a brochure in the mail from Porsche over the holidays and started playing around with the configurator.... and optioned out how I wanted, I think I came out to something in the low-mid 80s. Where I got distracted was that I realized, for that same price point, I could find a CPO 981 GT4.

I've driven a couple base 2.0's. You're right in that they don't give up a lot to the 2.5, at least once "on the pipe" so to speak... BUT... I *do* notice turbo lag on the 2.0 that I do not notice on the 2.5. And coming from autocrossing a 944 Turbo for years... I'm trying to avoid cars that give me any lag for AX.

I will say one thing I'm NOT aware of (perhaps you can confirm) - I know the 2.5 cars when equipped with Sport Chrono have a sort of "anti lag" built in when in Sport Plus. Does your T also have this? Can you drop the throttle at 2500rpm and still show boost on the boost gauge?

Also - interesting point about the GTS and heat issues. THAT I was unaware of (that the GTS solves some of the heat issues the S has when on track.) Any idea why? Third radiator included stock or something?

AKSteve wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:04 pm I'm used to being able to negotiate maybe a 5-8% discount on Porsches when I'm car shopping. I've heard right now there are so few cars around that basically everything is going for MSRP. Do you guys have any info on the current market for a new Boxster Spyder/GT4/GTS?
My dealer mentioned he'd be able to "cut me a price" but did not say what or how much of a discount when he offered the GTS 4.0 allocation. I've bought 4 cars from them, always got what I'd consider a decent deal - but they were also all CPO cars. This purchase I'm contemplating would be my first NEW Porsche.

Based on what I've seen, my theory? I think the key to getting a reliable/solid discount ties back to how good of a relationship you have with your dealer. From going in there and hanging out on Saturdays in the nicer seasons, I've gotten to know a couple other regular customers... and their feedback is the same as mine: we've always felt we got a good deal. But I've bumped into random other Porsche owners who seem to think my dealer is on the pricey side. They've also never purchased anything there, only walked in the door to price shop.

Further lending anecdotal evidence to my theory - while I purchased 4 at my regular dealership, I did buy my current Cayenne Diesel at a different dealer in town (had to go where they had inventory!) First purchase there, though I did know a few people from my past volunteer work as dealer coordinator for my PCA region, was mostly walking in cold. They didn't move much off their asking price... in fact the only real "budge" I got them to do was that 90% of the way through the deal, I switched the vehicle I wanted (went from a white/brown one to a silver/black one) and the silver one was $800 higher due to black window trim. They agreed to price match the white/brown one. Otherwise they didn't really move at all.
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By worf
#62435
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am I did consider the T ... came out to something in the low-mid 80s. Where I got distracted was that I realized, for that same price point, I could find a CPO 981 GT4.
True. It all depends upon exactly the use to which you will put it.

For me, I was not looking for a "baby GT" car in the form of a 718 T. (Although, it is closer than I'd anticipated.)

unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am I've driven a couple base 2.0's. You're right in that they don't give up a lot to the 2.5, at least once "on the pipe" so to speak... BUT... I *do* notice turbo lag on the 2.0 that I do not notice on the 2.5. And coming from autocrossing a 944 Turbo for years... I'm trying to avoid cars that give me any lag for AX.
There's a lot to love about "all motor." Again depends upon the use and how much you love/hate linearity/lag.

I drove a 718 base (non-T) and 2.5 GTS at PEC ATL. 1.5 hours in each on the same day. GTS first. Track. Skid pad. Handling pad, etc.

Definition of terms:

What I call "1st order lag" is how long you have to wait to get on boost when the turbo's not spinning (e.g. low rpm, low load, floor it and wait for boost.)

The early 911 Turbos are legendary for 1st order lag.

What I call 2nd order lag is, once you're on boost, how long does it take a change in throttle input to get to the driven wheels. This is what Walter Rohrl complains about when he's trying to place a tire on a dime at 10/10ths when slightly drifting around an apex.

IMO, the 2.0 has more 1st order lag than the 2.5 but less second order lag than the 2.5 GTS.

unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am I will say one thing I'm NOT aware of (perhaps you can confirm) - I know the 2.5 cars when equipped with Sport Chrono have a sort of "anti lag" built in when in Sport Plus. Does your T also have this?
I am not aware of this feature in the 4-pots or even the 3.0s. The 991.2 3.8 Turbo, however, does keep the throttle plate open on trailing throttle (for a while) so as to keep pumping air through the hot side on overrun.

Since this is purely software, there's no big technical reason I can think of, why the "lesser" turbo motors couldn't have it. But, I have no knowledge one way or the other and haven't thought to investigate.
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am Can you drop the throttle at 2500rpm and still show boost on the boost gauge?
Good question. I will attempt to observe this the next time I take my T out for a romp. That may be several days as there's a glacier in front of its bay right now.
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am Also - interesting point about the GTS and heat issues. THAT I was unaware of (that the GTS solves some of the heat issues the S has when on track.) Any idea why? Third radiator included stock or something?
Off the top of my head, IIRC, and I could be wrong, it's the blow-off valve overheating and forcing a limp mode. Whatever part it is, is unique to the 2.5 S. And since I don't have a 2.5 S, that info hasn't stuck to my brain.

On TOS in the 718 forum there's a thread... lemme see...

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-forum/1 ... t-car.html

that --^ one, I think, where the problem is diagnosed.
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am Based on what I've seen, my theory? I think the key to getting a reliable/solid discount ties back to how good of a relationship you have with your dealer. From going in there and hanging out on Saturdays ...
I hang out on weekdays with my SA. But, otherwise, I agree.

We've bought two, new, previously from the same SA (a serious motor head) and when it came time to do the deal for my T the negotiation took 0 seconds. I had an opening percentage in mind and a notional "minimum" in mind. I passed him the P-code he loaded it and said X% off MSRP and X was just above my "opening" and a couple points below my "minimum" and one point better than I expected to walk away with.

I think the key is: your SA knows you're not going to screw around wasting their time shopping discounts or changing your p-code twice per day etc. That knowledge comes from the relationship.

And of course, allocations are scarce relative to demand due to low production, pent up demand as a consequence and plenty of folks with vastly changed circumstances deciding "it's time" to get their new Porsche.

So IMO, someone unknown waltzing in for the first time with the "aura" of a bidding-war-starter is unlikely to be favored over a repeat client when only one allocation is easily available. And a known-client, first time buyer or not, will be favored over an unknown if the SA has to horse trade for an allocation from another dealer.

Bottom line it's mostly sellers market so an allocation in the hand is worth more than a Y% discount on a notional future allocation.

My $0.718 ...
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By worf
#62437
AKSteve wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:04 pm Do you guys have any info on the current market for a new Boxster Spyder/GT4/GTS?
I'm waiting on a late-April/May Spyder build. My SA tells me nothing is visible yet but he's expecting them to drop soon. He's had our deposit for over a year for this build window. So, my expectation is that I'm not getting the run-around.

From what I know, you will get a 0%-2% discount on an ordered GT4 or Spyder. Assuming your dealer isn't trying to add ADM (San Fran...) Not sure about 4.0 GTSs.

On-lot 4.0s of any flavor are being offered at no discount or +ADM in general.

However, when I last hung out with my SA a couple of weeks ago, we discovered that a large fraction of the the 4.0s sitting on lots are Chalk color. So, if you like Chalk you can probably do a deal I guess. My dealer has had a Gentian Blue w/buckets GT4 sitting in the showroom for a couple months. (Winter in New England is not good for off-lot GT car sales I think...)

--^ All my best guess from imperfect information. No warranty. By reading the above message you agree to dispute resolution via arbitration in the district of Luna...
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By unBilt 987
#62451
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:34 pm
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am I did consider the T ... came out to something in the low-mid 80s. Where I got distracted was that I realized, for that same price point, I could find a CPO 981 GT4.
True. It all depends upon exactly the use to which you will put it.

For me, I was not looking for a "baby GT" car in the form of a 718 T. (Although, it is closer than I'd anticipated.)
Yeah for me I've definitely got a degree of "baby GT" purpose with it. On paper, the T really checks all the boxes and it does resonate with me.

But at that spend level, it's hard to not consider the alternatives. And if I looked at it from a financial perspective (who wants to do that?!) the GT4 will depreciate far less.

Tho along those lines, I **also** started looking at 997.1 GT3s. Tough part about those is the specialty financing needed....
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:34 pm
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am I've driven a couple base 2.0's. You're right in that they don't give up a lot to the 2.5, at least once "on the pipe" so to speak... BUT... I *do* notice turbo lag on the 2.0 that I do not notice on the 2.5. And coming from autocrossing a 944 Turbo for years... I'm trying to avoid cars that give me any lag for AX.
There's a lot to love about "all motor." Again depends upon the use and how much you love/hate linearity/lag.
Yep. Years of autocrossing a 944 Turbo and trying to compete with Boxsters/Caymans/911s.... waiting for the turbo to spin up on the tighter courses got a little frustrating.

My current car, a 987.1 that's been converted to 987.2, with Fabspeed race headers and an updated tune... the responsiveness and linear power is night and day. It's SO nice having such predictable power delivery. And after the headers/tune (likely mostly from drive-by-wire mapping trickery) the car has decent grunt in the midrange.
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:34 pm I drove a 718 base (non-T) and 2.5 GTS at PEC ATL. 1.5 hours in each on the same day. GTS first. Track. Skid pad. Handling pad, etc.



Definition of terms:

What I call "1st order lag" is how long you have to wait to get on boost when the turbo's not spinning (e.g. low rpm, low load, floor it and wait for boost.)

The early 911 Turbos are legendary for 1st order lag.

What I call 2nd order lag is, once you're on boost, how long does it take a change in throttle input to get to the driven wheels. This is what Walter Rohrl complains about when he's trying to place a tire on a dime at 10/10ths when slightly drifting around an apex.

IMO, the 2.0 has more 1st order lag than the 2.5 but less second order lag than the 2.5 GTS.
I like the definitions.

1st order is definitely what I was referring to. I had an extended test drive in a 718 base, 6speed, some sport options (PASM and Sport Chrono). It was a nice warm morning and I chucked it around a parking lot pretty aggressively trying to simulate typical AX conditions that would drive me bonkers with my 944... and the traits were all there. :( Chuck it in to a tight turn where you're down around 2000rpm in 2nd and punch it and you are waiting a little bit for the boost to spool up. Not as bad as my 944 of course, but still noticeable. Driving a 2.5 car, I do not get that.

However the last time I drove a 2.0 car, I did not know about the anti-lag feature of the Sport Chrono, so I can't say if that was active or not as I didn't look for it (and my test drive might not have been in Sport Plus). The last couple times I've driven a 2.5 car (S and GTS) I can definitely say they DO have it.... the car seems to sit at 1-2psi all the time if you're in Sport Plus outside of a dead stop.
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:34 pm
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am I will say one thing I'm NOT aware of (perhaps you can confirm) - I know the 2.5 cars when equipped with Sport Chrono have a sort of "anti lag" built in when in Sport Plus. Does your T also have this?
I am not aware of this feature in the 4-pots or even the 3.0s. The 991.2 3.8 Turbo, however, does keep the throttle plate open on trailing throttle (for a while) so as to keep pumping air through the hot side on overrun.

Since this is purely software, there's no big technical reason I can think of, why the "lesser" turbo motors couldn't have it. But, I have no knowledge one way or the other and haven't thought to investigate.
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am Can you drop the throttle at 2500rpm and still show boost on the boost gauge?
Good question. I will attempt to observe this the next time I take my T out for a romp. That may be several days as there's a glacier in front of its bay right now.
Yeah I know for sure the 2.5 S has it. I've messed with it. As an old school turbo guy I thought it was cool as heck the first time I saw it work.

There might not be a TECHNICAL limitation for why it's not available on "lesser" models. Could be a marketing reason though. Wouldn't put it past Porsche.
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:34 pm
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am Also - interesting point about the GTS and heat issues. THAT I was unaware of (that the GTS solves some of the heat issues the S has when on track.) Any idea why? Third radiator included stock or something?
Off the top of my head, IIRC, and I could be wrong, it's the blow-off valve overheating and forcing a limp mode. Whatever part it is, is unique to the 2.5 S. And since I don't have a 2.5 S, that info hasn't stuck to my brain.

On TOS in the 718 forum there's a thread... lemme see...

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-forum/1 ... t-car.html

that --^ one, I think, where the problem is diagnosed.
I'll have to sniff through that link. Hopefully won't get too much TOS stink on me. ;)
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:34 pm
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am Based on what I've seen, my theory? I think the key to getting a reliable/solid discount ties back to how good of a relationship you have with your dealer. From going in there and hanging out on Saturdays ...
I hang out on weekdays with my SA. But, otherwise, I agree.

We've bought two, new, previously from the same SA (a serious motor head) and when it came time to do the deal for my T the negotiation took 0 seconds. I had an opening percentage in mind and a notional "minimum" in mind. I passed him the P-code he loaded it and said X% off MSRP and X was just above my "opening" and a couple points below my "minimum" and one point better than I expected to walk away with.

I think the key is: your SA knows you're not going to screw around wasting their time shopping discounts or changing your p-code twice per day etc. That knowledge comes from the relationship.

And of course, allocations are scarce relative to demand due to low production, pent up demand as a consequence and plenty of folks with vastly changed circumstances deciding "it's time" to get their new Porsche.

So IMO, someone unknown waltzing in for the first time with the "aura" of a bidding-war-starter is unlikely to be favored over a repeat client when only one allocation is easily available. And a known-client, first time buyer or not, will be favored over an unknown if the SA has to horse trade for an allocation from another dealer.

Bottom line it's mostly sellers market so an allocation in the hand is worth more than a Y% discount on a notional future allocation.

My $0.718 ...
Yeah in my case, the sales manager is a few years younger than me and a cool guy. We both do iRacing together, have done a few track events together, etc. We just sit around and shoot the shit. And my dealer has a Starbucks inside so it becomes a Saturday morning destination when the weather is nice... cool cars, cool people, free coffee. ;) He's a huge enthusiast himself and if he's got something super cool/rare on the lot, he usually can't wait to toss me the keys. Too bad he doesn't have a used GTS 4.0 kicking around I could sample! (But for the record, I am driving a new Taycan 4S for the next few days as my Cayenne is in for a new windshield.....)
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By worf
#62549
unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:38 pm But at that spend level, it's hard to not consider the alternatives. And if I looked at it from a financial perspective (who wants to do that?!) the GT4 will depreciate far less.
I flipped back and forth from a GTS 4.0 build and a T build. Performance was not the top priority for this car for me.

GT4 is awesome, but it's not a car on which you throw snow tires and drive year-round in New England.

I have other "fun" cars for the summer.

unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:38 pm Tho along those lines, I **also** started looking at 997.1 GT3s. Tough part about those is the specialty financing needed....
Again, all depends upon the purpose to which it will be put.

And of course, you don't really get to choose your options at the used car store.

unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am Yep. Years of autocrossing a 944 Turbo and trying to compete with Boxsters/Caymans/911s.... waiting for the turbo to spin up on the tighter courses got a little frustrating.
Well, I may find out the same thing. On the other hand I've A-X'd Gen 1 Audi TTs and they had monster 1st order lag. I'm assuming that if I keep the revs screaming it'll be fine. I may be wrong. But the 7500 red line holds promise in that regard.

unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am And after the headers/tune (likely mostly from drive-by-wire mapping trickery) the car has decent grunt in the midrange.
Yeah. Drive-by-wire is a technology the sole purpose of which is emissions management.

unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am However the last time I drove a 2.0 car, I did not know about the anti-lag feature of the Sport Chrono, so I can't say if that was active or not as I didn't look for it (and my test drive might not have been in Sport Plus). The last couple times I've driven a 2.5 car (S and GTS) I can definitely say they DO have it.... the car seems to sit at 1-2psi all the time if you're in Sport Plus outside of a dead stop.
The very first thing I did when I was handed the key (fob) was program Individual more to Sport+, softest SPASM (shit roads), ASS off, PSE on. And the first thing I do after starting the engine is turn the manetto to I mode.

So, I don't have any idea what "normal" mode is like.

unBilt 987 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:35 am Yeah I know for sure the 2.5 S has it. I've messed with it. As an old school turbo guy I thought it was cool as heck the first time I saw it work.

There might not be a TECHNICAL limitation for why it's not available on "lesser" models. Could be a marketing reason though. Wouldn't put it past Porsche.
The 991.2 T model had software tweaks to add some "oomph" above the pure base model. So, if the 2.5 has it then I'd bet the 2.0 in T form has it too.

I chipped away at the glacier this afternoon. It'll be several more days I think.
By unBilt 987
#62700
I checked in on another Cayman forum and confirmed - no anti-lag on the 2.0 cars, T or otherwise. The 2.0 does not have a VGT turbo (was not aware, I figured everything in their lineup was VGT these days).
By unBilt 987
#62703
And the Audi TT (assuming the old 1.8?) had nothing on 1st order lag on my 944. I didn't see positive manifold pressure until 3,000rpm - holding it WOT from idle. With a, what, 8.5:1 CR... it was dead slow until fully on boost. I did what I could to mitigate it - dual ball bearing turbo, S2 gearbox with shorter gearing... still had a lot of wait...wait... wait.. BOOOSTbrake brake brake... wait... wait... BOOS-brake.... brake....

That said, the 2.0 in the 718 is significantly better than an old VAG 1.8T was.

But neither are as instant-on as N/A. ;)
By unBilt 987
#63314
Well...

Oops?

So I stopped by the dealer on Saturday afternoon to pick up my Diesel after having a new windshield installed. Spent some time shooting the shit with the sales manager again, about this topic.

As we were chatting, another customer of his came in... guy I've met a few times before (cool guy.) A very long convoluted story short there - he was driving his friend's '21 Spyder, "doing the break in miles for him before it gets shipped to him". (We are in Shitcago, his friend is in NY, ordered the car from my local dealer.) So I got to take a little ride in it from the right seat. Only had ~200 miles on it so he didn't want to run it past 5000 rpm BUT.... I was sold.

Talked to my buddy. He talked to the GM. Confirmed, "Next allocation slot is yours." Will drop off a deposit for my spot this week. Working out the exact spec now but it'll be pretty light on the options.
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By AKSteve
#63477
unBilt 987 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:13 pm Talked to my buddy. He talked to the GM. Confirmed, "Next allocation slot is yours." Will drop off a deposit for my spot this week. Working out the exact spec now but it'll be pretty light on the options.
Nice. I got a call out of the blue today from the SA I always work with at the local dealership. After some chit-chatting, I asked him to let me know if they're going to have an allocation for a Spyder anytime soon. He's going to check and get back to me. I still need to go in and sit in the used Boxster they have and see whether or not I feel comfortable in it. I'm 6'6" and pretty much the definition of "Big & Tall."

What color do you think you'll get? I think I like this car best in GT Silver, with Gentian Blue as my next choice. Black is a distant third, just because of how hard it is to keep clean.
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By worf
#63480
unBilt 987 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:13 pm Talked to my buddy. He talked to the GM. Confirmed, "Next allocation slot is yours." Will drop off a deposit for my spot this week. Working out the exact spec now but it'll be pretty light on the options.
Well, that problem is solved.
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By unBilt 987
#63664
AKSteve wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:52 pm
unBilt 987 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:13 pm Talked to my buddy. He talked to the GM. Confirmed, "Next allocation slot is yours." Will drop off a deposit for my spot this week. Working out the exact spec now but it'll be pretty light on the options.
Nice. I got a call out of the blue today from the SA I always work with at the local dealership. After some chit-chatting, I asked him to let me know if they're going to have an allocation for a Spyder anytime soon. He's going to check and get back to me. I still need to go in and sit in the used Boxster they have and see whether or not I feel comfortable in it. I'm 6'6" and pretty much the definition of "Big & Tall."
I'm 6'2, but a 32" inseam - so I have a long torso. For me, the seat itself can make the difference. Any of the full power seat options seem to be too tall. The lowest setting still has the steering wheel cutting off the top of the tach. My wife's second 981 Boxster had full power seats with heat and cooling and I always felt like I sat too tall in the cabin.

The basic entry level, full manual seat, or the full manual "sport seat" gets low enough that I don't feel awkward and can get comfortable. My wife's first 981 Boxster was literally a total stripper (the ONLY options it had on the build sheet were Sport Chrono and Nav) and I fit okay in that car. I've also driven a 718 with the "sport" manual seat (seat with the extra bolstering etc) and it seemed to sit as low, if not a little lower, than the basic manual seat.

The factory seat that seems to feel the lowest to me is the carbon bucket with the lower seat cushion removed. I'm ordering mine with the sport buckets and honestly plan to either have the cushion removed the entire time, or will have a thinner custom one made at a local upholstery shop.

In my current 987, I have a Recaro SPG XL seat for a driver's seat, with custom brackets mounted straight to the floor, such that the bottom of the SPG is actually touching the carpet. I fit like a glove in there and love the position - so I'm planning to get that similar feel with the carbon buckets in the Spyder.
AKSteve wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:52 pm What color do you think you'll get? I think I like this car best in GT Silver, with Gentian Blue as my next choice. Black is a distant third, just because of how hard it is to keep clean.
I'm going with white, and silver wheels. The one I took a ride in had black wheels, that actually looked good - but with EVERYTHING coming with black wheels these days, I feel like it's starting to get played out. I love the gold wheel they offer but fear in a few years those will look dated - so sticking to the standard silver wheel. "Played out" is also why I opted against doing Carbon Fiber trim. I love it but think it's starting to run its course. Going with the black anodized aluminum instead. I think the stark all white and bright wheel exterior, with all black interior, will look good.

A close 2nd was black... it looks REALLY good in black... but I've owned enough black cars, I don't like having to keep them so clean.

If I were still doing a GTS I'd probably be going Guards Red. I actually really like the green they offer but I don't want to pay $2500 extra for a color. That and I drive like an asshole enough, I don't need to make myself more obvious to the Karens on the road. "Little white convertible" is a little more anonymous than "kermit the frog green".

Basically I've settled on ("cost" options):
Carbon buckets
PDLS+ LED headlights (have LEDs on my Cayenne, love them)
Dual-zone climate control (I haaaaate the base climate control it's so slow to work with)
CarPlay
Navigation (mostly because I hate that you get a NAV button and get an error when you press it - this would drive me nuts. Also, mountain road trip without cell signal, I'd still like to have GPS...)

"No cost" options:
Black aluminum trim
Leather wheel/shift knob instead of alcantara
High Performance summer tires instead of the Cup2's

Pretty sure that's it.
worf wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:02 pm
unBilt 987 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:13 pm Talked to my buddy. He talked to the GM. Confirmed, "Next allocation slot is yours." Will drop off a deposit for my spot this week. Working out the exact spec now but it'll be pretty light on the options.
Well, that problem is solved.
LOL! Yep.
User avatar
By worf
#63689
So, the following observation is no longer relevant since @unBilt 987's gone Spyder(*), but since I made it I will report it.

Yesterday I removed the last vestiges of the glacier from in front of Samson's (That's the name of the 718 T; don't ask, it's TMI...) garage bay and was able to exercise him.

I'm pretty sure that the T model has the same anti-lag feature as reported for the 991.2 Turbo models. In summary: in overrun after high-load the ECU keeps the throttle plate open for a bit so as to use the engine as an "air pump" to keep the turbo spoiled.

On the way home I had the opportunity to umm... bypass ... yeah, that's it, bypass ... a left-lane squatter. Afterwards, with no throttle (i.e. overrun) using engine-braking, I was seeing 12 down to 10 PSI on the boost gauge down to 3k rpm when I reengaged throttle.

*no way* do you make 10 PSI of boost on overrun with a closed throttle plate. So, either there's an anti-lag feature or the gauge lies.

I don't know if this anti-lag feature is standard across all the Turbo sports cars, or just on the T, etc.

(*) On to Spyder news: no open allocations in the US and they've been expecting them for a bit. MY SA suspects that the next available allocations will be for August/September delivery and will likely be the last for MY'21. Further, since EPA and CARB like to screw with VAG, MY'22 cars will probably sit in US port until December '21.

In other news, my dealer - large - has exactly two new sports cars on the lot: a GT4 and a 4.0 Cayman. Ordering a 911 *now* will get you one in a year. This is why *used* Porsche prices are nuts.
User avatar
By AKSteve
#68158
I keep checking inventory on Cargurus and I found a nice black Spyder in California. It's PDK, but I'm starting to have more of an open mind about the transmission after hearing that C&D was able to do 0-60 in 3.3seconds with a PDK equipped GT4. Anyway, I scrolled through all the photos of the car and then I came across one that showed the "DEALERSHIP ADJUSTMENT" to the MSRP. Wowza, I was hoping to maybe find a car somewhere for 5% off or for MSRP at the most. But $20k markup? That's just crazy.

Image

Image
User avatar
By worf
#68166
AKSteve wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:25 pm I was hoping to maybe find a car somewhere for 5% off or for MSRP at the most.
Not gonna happen any time soon. You can avoid ADM, but you’re not going to get anything other than 0 or a token discount. It’s a sellers market until production catches up. Probably a year at least.

And GT4RS slots will take away from GT4/Spyder/4.0/etc.
User avatar
By AKSteve
#68167
worf wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:53 pm
AKSteve wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:25 pm I was hoping to maybe find a car somewhere for 5% off or for MSRP at the most.
Not gonna happen any time soon. You can avoid ADM, but you’re not going to get anything other than 0 or a token discount. It’s a sellers market until production catches up. Probably a year at least.

And GT4RS slots will take away from GT4/Spyder/4.0/etc.
And to make matters worse, I was reading on the "other board" that there's a Stop Sale order for recently manufactured GT4/Spyder/GTS models. Possibly due to a connecting rod issue. CarGurus.com is showing only 11 Spyders currently available nationally and I guess maybe that's all that will be available for a while.
User avatar
By worf
#68170
AKSteve wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:58 pm And to make matters worse, I was reading on the "other board" that there's a Stop Sale order for recently manufactured GT4/Spyder/GTS models. Possibly due to a connecting rod issue.
Paid attention for the first page. Any actual evidence posted?

Meh... i’ll go look.
User avatar
By worf
#68177
Ok. So, yeah, evidence is mounting that it’s conrod-*related*. Possibly bolts/nuts.
User avatar
By worf
#68334
@AKSteve Looks like you might be able to get 5% off MSRP, but it’s gonna be one with con-rod bolts replaced by the dealer... :typing:
User avatar
By AKSteve
#68370
worf wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:47 am @AKSteve Looks like you might be able to get 5% off MSRP, but it’s gonna be one with con-rod bolts replaced by the dealer... :typing:
Lol. Hard pass. I had an E46 BMW M3 with a similar issue and I traded it in as soon as I heard they were being recalled and the dealership would have to rip the engine apart.

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