986, 987, 718, and Cayman
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By worf
#3668
This’ll be interesting.

Cayman T; V250 9/18.

Anticipation is one of the few things keeping me sane right now.
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By amdavid
#3683
Exciting.
worf wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:36 pm This’ll be interesting.

Cayman T; V250 9/18.

Anticipation is one of the few things keeping me sane right now.
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By worf
#42052
Not too many flat-four fans. Oh well...
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By fpena944
#42060
worf wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:24 pm Not too many flat-four fans. Oh well...
Ok we need more pics!!?
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By worf
#42162
fpena944 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:57 pm Ok we need more pics!!?
Yes. We do. Once I have some good ones I’ll post’em.

It was fresh off the truck from Davisville and traveled in a rain storm.

So, nothin’ good to see until PDI is done tomorrow. Probably not until paint correction and PPF is done. But, we’ll see.
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By worf
#42168
One more semi-good picture:

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By FlatSix
#42240
See, you should have started a deviated stitching thread; you'd get a lot more action.

Oh wait, that was the other place.

More pics, please.
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By worf
#42247
FlatSix wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:33 pm See, you should have started a deviated stitching thread; you'd get a lot more action.
LoL. Yeah.

More pictures tomorrow-ish. First thing will be to mount the winter wheel/tire set and coat the calipers with Corrosion X.

I’ll probably have more pictures of the technical bits underneath than the shiny bits on top though :)

PPF will be 12/29. But, I’m going to go ahead and drive it a bit once the snow shoes are mounted.

On the other hand the Zyclomatrot 928 S4 is still in the work bay where the 718 needs to be for wheel mounting.

And on that note, I need to now go and see if I have indeed successfully plumbed the depths of the Zyc S4’s “previous-technician” problems.
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By worf
#42551
Moar pitchurs. Comments follow in next post.
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By worf
#42567
The best exterior picture I took was at the grocery store on the iPhone on the way home. You'll note in the last picture the snow shovels? Snowmaggedon tonight. Apparently. Had stuff to do before dark including getting snow blower food.

11-mile drive home on suburban MA cratered surface streets. Just that short drive was enough to know that my expectations of driving dynamics had been exceeded. I was worried that the -20mm Sport PASM suspension would be a tad harsh on our terrible roads. It's better than our former 981 CS. Overall the 718T makes the 981 feel slightly ponderous in comparison.
If you've driven a 981 and thought it was good, this is better by a noticeable margin according to my butt-o-meter. The steering is more-nicely weighted than the 981 and the feedback is better. Also, no Power Steering Plus (PSP) on this one unlike the 981. I always thought that PSP makes the wheel too light at around-town speeds. I know Porsche did a lot of suspension work for the 718 and it shows. I also think that ~40 pounds less unsprung weight due to the PCCBs makes a big difference. To me at least.

The cabin is a wonderful place to be. I'm glad I spec'd what I did. I care far more about the interior than I do the exterior since I spend my time inside not outside.

In terms of the motor, I knew what I was getting. In 2019, I drove a 2.5 GTS at PEC Atlanta on the various courses for 1.5 hours followed by a 2.0 base in the afternoon. 300 flat-torque-curve horsepower is plenty for what I want this car to do for me. In the 2.0, on the road course, I lapped a dude picking up his 991.2 TurboS. Three times. And it's a short course. My instructor was getting chewed out on the radio because I was making the $200k dude look bad. It was hilarious.

It's got a better power-to-weight ratio than my first Porsche did to start ('91 928 GT now supercharged) and it's more driveable. Don't believe comments on Turbo Lag. Keep the revs above 1800 and you'll never notice; plenty of grunt. And, if I need more power many "tunes" are available. If I need a 'power fix' there are other options in the garage. This one's going to be a 4-season driver. It's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Certainly 'round town. Driving the twin-screwed 928 is like taking an adolescent fire-breathing dragon to the shops: one lapse of attention, shit's on fire and your facing the wrong direction.

Noise: When I need an exhaust sound fix the twin-screwed '91 with custom exhaust does it. I like the "differentness" of the flat-four. Fuck the haters. Owning 928s for 23 years has both prepared and inured me to "purists" that worship 911s or N.A. flat-sixes. I like 991s and the flat six is, yes, a nice motor. Better than most.

All our cars have names. The '91 is Green Beast. CarChick's 991S is Foxy. I'll wait to determine this one's sex until we've both driven it a bit. This one is a dancer or fencer. Nimble. Precise. A rapier not a sledge hammer. If female I'm thinking "Arya" (Stark). If male Oberyn (Martell) or, since he didn't die well, Daario (Naharis) who made it out alive.

Why didn't I get a 4.0 GTS? Two specific reasons: the Sport-Tex interior and the fact that I could get 18-way seats with a *manual* tilt/telescope steering wheel. Neither are available on the 4.0. If one or the other had been available, I might, maybe, have gotten a 4.0. On the other hand every single time I spec'd a GTS on the configurator I was always drawn back to the looks of the T. I really like the gray exterior accents. And I also like the body colored front bumper cover. I do not like the black maw of the GTS 'sport' bumper; looks like it took a hockey puck to the mouth.

Porsche configurator junkies will note that I checked all the option boxes. This may be the highest spec 718T. Why? This will almost certainly be my last manual car. It will almost certainly be my last ICE car. Regrets are more expensive than Porsche options. Fuck it. Yolo. No regrets.
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By fpena944
#42696
worf wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pm The best exterior picture I took was at the grocery store on the iPhone on the way home. You'll note in the last picture the snow shovels? Snowmaggedon tonight. Apparently. Had stuff to do before dark including getting snow blower food.

What luck eh? Got a great new car you want to play with and here comes the snow!

Would you still drive this in snow or just hold off until the roads are more clear?

worf wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pm 11-mile drive home on suburban MA cratered surface streets. Just that short drive was enough to know that my expectations of driving dynamics had been exceeded. I was worried that the -20mm Sport PASM suspension would be a tad harsh on our terrible roads. It's better than our former 981 CS. Overall the 718T makes the 981 feel slightly ponderous in comparison.
If you've driven a 981 and thought it was good, this is better by a noticeable margin according to my butt-o-meter. The steering is more-nicely weighted than the 981 and the feedback is better. Also, no Power Steering Plus (PSP) on this one unlike the 981. I always thought that PSP makes the wheel too light at around-town speeds. I know Porsche did a lot of suspension work for the 718 and it shows. I also think that ~40 pounds less unsprung weight due to the PCCBs makes a big difference. To me at least.

The cabin is a wonderful place to be. I'm glad I spec'd what I did. I care far more about the interior than I do the exterior since I spend my time inside not outside.

In terms of the motor, I knew what I was getting. In 2019, I drove a 2.5 GTS at PEC Atlanta on the various courses for 1.5 hours followed by a 2.0 base in the afternoon. 300 flat-torque-curve horsepower is plenty for what I want this car to do for me. In the 2.0, on the road course, I lapped a dude picking up his 991.2 TurboS. Three times. And it's a short course. My instructor was getting chewed out on the radio because I was making the $200k dude look bad. It was hilarious.
That is hilarious! Most of these hotshots start spewing steam from their ears when they think a car less capable than theirs "dares" to pass them.

I do remember when the Boxster GTS came out and I did a couple of hot laps at CMP with the factory drivers. I was impressed by the performance of that car considering it still had less power than my 996. There's something to be said about a great suspension, lower weight, and superior dynamics compared to a higher horsepower car.

worf wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pm It's got a better power-to-weight ratio than my first Porsche did to start ('91 928 GT now supercharged) and it's more driveable. Don't believe comments on Turbo Lag. Keep the revs above 1800 and you'll never notice; plenty of grunt. And, if I need more power many "tunes" are available. If I need a 'power fix' there are other options in the garage. This one's going to be a 4-season driver. It's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Certainly 'round town. Driving the twin-screwed 928 is like taking an adolescent fire-breathing dragon to the shops: one lapse of attention, shit's on fire and your facing the wrong direction.

Noise: When I need an exhaust sound fix the twin-screwed '91 with custom exhaust does it. I like the "differentness" of the flat-four. Fuck the haters. Owning 928s for 23 years has both prepared and inured me to "purists" that worship 911s or N.A. flat-sixes. I like 991s and the flat six is, yes, a nice motor. Better than most.
That's the biggest complain I've heard from others. But I'll tell you when I had my 944 it sounded wonderful even for only being a 4 cylinder. And I dare say I've heard some Subaru STi's that have intoxicating exhaust sounds too so I believe with the right exhaust anything can sound good.


worf wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pm All our cars have names. The '91 is Green Beast. CarChick's 991S is Foxy. I'll wait to determine this one's sex until we've both driven it a bit. This one is a dancer or fencer. Nimble. Precise. A rapier not a sledge hammer. If female I'm thinking "Arya" (Stark). If male Oberyn (Martell) or, since he didn't die well, Daario (Naharis) who made it out alive.

Why didn't I get a 4.0 GTS? Two specific reasons: the Sport-Tex interior and the fact that I could get 18-way seats with a *manual* tilt/telescope steering wheel. Neither are available on the 4.0. If one or the other had been available, I might, maybe, have gotten a 4.0. On the other hand every single time I spec'd a GTS on the configurator I was always drawn back to the looks of the T. I really like the gray exterior accents. And I also like the body colored front bumper cover. I do not like the black maw of the GTS 'sport' bumper; looks like it took a hockey puck to the mouth.

Porsche configurator junkies will note that I checked all the option boxes. This may be the highest spec 718T. Why? This will almost certainly be my last manual car. It will almost certainly be my last ICE car. Regrets are more expensive than Porsche options. Fuck it. Yolo. No regrets.
Love it! I think it looks great. It reminds me a big of a 981 Cayman that I had as a loner a couple of years ago. Was quite the vehicle and I had a great time with it, even though it was just a base model.

I think yours is perfectly configured, I didn't expect it to be a manual as you hardly ever see them coming in that way anymore. Great choice on all the options, I'm sure this thing will bring years of fun and smiles. Congrats!

Given what I've heard about the 718, you might not have a choice about whether the car will be ICE or not in the future.
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By amdavid
#42749
Way to not FK around and avoid doing it again, or have regrets. Nicely appointed both inside and out, love white on this car, you did good! Also glad to hear you're gonna keep it on the road throughout the year, sweet! I really feel sorry for those who "store" their only Porsche for the winter.
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By worf
#42841
amdavid wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:35 pm Nicely appointed both inside and out, love white on this car, you did good!
Thanks!

fpena944 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:27 am What luck eh? Got a great new car you want to play with and here comes the snow!
Winter in New England isn't exactly unexpected. What was unexpected was a 4-week hold at port due to CARB certification. Some folks had been waiting for months. EPA certification for MY'21 992s and 718s happened in early November. So, August builds had been sitting at ports of entry for 3 months! CARB cert for CA and lemming states that follow it didn't happen until a week ago.

Since Dieselgate, apparently, the EPA and CARB like to fuck with VAG certification. I don't know what the deal is but every year there's a couple of Porsche (and VW) models that EPA and CARB just drag their heals certifying.

fpena944 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:27 am Would you still drive this in snow or just hold off until the roads are more clear?
I'll drive it when the roads are clear. On the other hand if there's a pressing need to drive it on packed snow, I'll do it. That's what the snow tires are for.

fpena944 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:27 am That is hilarious! Most of these hotshots start spewing steam from their ears when they think a car less capable than theirs "dares" to pass them.
Happens a lot at DEs. Folks that have spent a bazillion dollars on upgrades (except for upgrading the nut behind the wheel) basically won't let a 'lesser' car pass.

In this case you've got to be sure that it was a guy taking delivery of his dream that had never been on the track and who'd probably never driven a car with the power-to-weight ratio of a 991.2 Turbo S. And it wasn't even his car. When you do PEC delivery you don't get to take your car on the track; you get to take a very-similar car on the track.

fpena944 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:27 am I do remember when the Boxster GTS came out and I did a couple of hot laps at CMP with the factory drivers. I was impressed by the performance of that car considering it still had less power than my 996. There's something to be said about a great suspension, lower weight, and superior dynamics compared to a higher horsepower car.
First time I was on the track a million years ago, the lesson of upgrading the nut behind the wheel was driven home when I couldn't keep up with the Chief Instructor's wife's Subaru station wagon in my 928.

fpena944 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:27 amThat's the biggest complain I've heard from others. But I'll tell you when I had my 944 it sounded wonderful even for only being a 4 cylinder. And I dare say I've heard some Subaru STi's that have intoxicating exhaust sounds too so I believe with the right exhaust anything can sound good.
I will be the first to admit that it is hard to make a 4-pot engine sound good. On the other hand I think a lot of the worship of the flat-6 noise is tribal. Or, IOWs, best proclaim that it's God's exhaust note or be ostracized from the 911 tribe.

For me it's a matter of Blonde? Brunette? Redhead? It's not the hair color that matters. So, as long as the engine and exhaust sound like an engine having fun, I'm good. The vast majority of car engines these days sound like something being tortured with chains inside a metal container filled with BBs.

The 718 flat-4 sounds good. So does the flat-6. And of course the V8 in the 928s too.

fpena944 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:27 am I didn't expect it to be a manual as you hardly ever see them coming in that way anymore.
My SA told me that they rarely, almost never, order a manual transmission car for the lot. So, when you see a modern Porsche with a manual transmission, it's a virtual certainty that it was ordered specifically by a 'real' person.

I don't recall exactly the latest stats on MT take-rate on Porsches where it's available but it is disappointingly small ~15-20% IIRC. Maybe even less.

Part of the makeup of this bucket list item was that I wanted one modern Porsche MT sports car.

fpena944 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:27 am Given what I've heard about the 718, you might not have a choice about whether the car will be ICE or not in the future.
Correct. I'd originally been looking at MY'22 or '23 for this, assuming it would be the last MY of this generation. Turns out that MY'22 is probably going to be Spyder, GT4, and GT4RS only and not at all in the EU due to their new stupid MY'22 regulations. And MY'23 is probably nothing. I doubt they'll have an electric version ready by then. And, I wouldn't care anyway.

So, this was my last chance to get that one modern Porsche MT sports car.

Oh and the 992? Nope. Can't stand *at all* the interior user interface execution(*). Hell, I don't really like the updated PCM in the '17+. Even though it 'looks pretty' it's not as usable and is more annoying than PCM '13-'16. I'll live with it though.

(*) I have no issue with TFT displays as opposed to mechanical gauges. It's a fine architecture if executed by professionals (engineers that is.) It is the execution of the architecture in this current generation of Porsche's that execrable. I had a MY'19 Cayenne with that UX as a loaner. I wanted to smash it with a hammer. I'm pretty sure that if I was sitting in one now, I could sit for several hours doing nothing but writing descriptions of all the human factors engineering mistakes made in it.
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By worf
#48172
Took some random pictures before Christmas when putting on the winter shoes.

Talk about a Flat Bottomed Girl:

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By fpena944
#48201
worf wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:48 am Took some random pictures before Christmas when putting on the winter shoes.

Talk about a Flat Bottomed Girl:

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So clean!

Let us know how she does in the bad weather. Might convince some of us that they're the best winter vehicles!
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By worf
#62458
fpena944 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:49 am Let us know how she does in the bad weather. Might convince some of us that they're the best winter vehicles!
I’ve driven it a couple of times when it was cold and slightly damp and, with the winter shoes, it was all good.

I’ve no plans to drive it around on snow or ice: SPASM is not really the thing for that.

When it’s shitty I have our Macan for that. I see, from one of the random picture threads, that since I’ve had a Macan for couple of years I should have grown a vagina by now. I’ve been looking for it. But, so far haven’t found it. :silenced:
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By AKSteve
#62477
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:49 pm I see, from one of the random picture threads, that since I’ve had a Macan for couple of years I should have grown a vagina by now. I’ve been looking for it. But, so far haven’t found it.
Take your Macan to the beach. You'll surely get sand in your vagina.
By unBilt 987
#62488
Sorry I completely missed this thread ;)

Need to check the non-rant forums more often!

I do love the T and looooove the pinstriped "tex" interior.
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By worf
#62491
AKSteve wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:24 pm
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:49 pm I see, from one of the random picture threads, that since I’ve had a Macan for couple of years I should have grown a vagina by now. I’ve been looking for it. But, so far haven’t found it.
Take your Macan to the beach. You'll surely get sand in your vagina.
Weak. You should have been creative enough to figure our a way to tell me to go fuck myself... :eyepop:
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By FlatSix
#62530
Tuning back in - this is a funny story here, but it might have something to do with the difference between trying and buying:
worf wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pmIn terms of the motor, I knew what I was getting. In 2019, I drove a 2.5 GTS at PEC Atlanta on the various courses for 1.5 hours followed by a 2.0 base in the afternoon. 300 flat-torque-curve horsepower is plenty for what I want this car to do for me. In the 2.0, on the road course, I lapped a dude picking up his 991.2 TurboS. Three times. And it's a short course. My instructor was getting chewed out on the radio because I was making the $200k dude look bad. It was hilarious.

. . .


Porsche configurator junkies will note that I checked all the option boxes.
Then how come you have leftover spaces for buttons on your center console??? :popcorn:
worf wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:49 pm Moar pitchurs. Comments follow in next post.
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That looks like a great ride! I have been thinking about a 981S as a driver but you're making me reconsider the 718. I did own a 914 at one point so I have a soft spot for the flat fours . . .
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By worf
#62543
FlatSix wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:13 pm Tuning back in - this is a funny story here, but it might have something to do with the difference between trying and buying:
worf wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pmIn terms of the motor, I knew what I was getting. In 2019, I drove a 2.5 GTS at PEC Atlanta on the various courses for 1.5 hours followed by a 2.0 base in the afternoon. 300 flat-torque-curve horsepower is plenty for what I want this car to do for me. In the 2.0, on the road course, I lapped a dude picking up his 991.2 TurboS. Three times. And it's a short course. My instructor was getting chewed out on the radio because I was making the $200k dude look bad. It was hilarious.
Not sure what you mean. What was funny about the story was my instructor getting chewed out over the radio by the instructor in the TurboS for letting me lap it..

You realize that when you do PEC delivery you don't drive the car you bought on the track right? You drive a car "similar" to what you bought. So, you can drive it has hard as your talent or balls allow.

No doubt a proper driver in the TurboS would have lapped me three times.

FlatSix wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:13 pm
worf wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pm Porsche configurator junkies will note that I checked all the option boxes.
Then how come you have leftover spaces for buttons on your center console??? :popcorn:
'cause it ain't a Panamera? If you want the center console filled with buttons you have buy one of the SUVs.

FlatSix wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:13 pm That looks like a great ride! I have been thinking about a 981S as a driver but you're making me reconsider the 718. I did own a 914 at one point so I have a soft spot for the flat fours . . .
981S is a great car. We sold ours this summer to make room. Would have kept it except it was my wife's first experiment with a two-pedal car. She's a three-pedal girl to the core.

In terms of speed, the 718 Base is more-or-less as fast as the 3.6 N.A in the 981S. Prices of both on the used market overlap depending upon mileage.

With the 718 a bunch more power is only A Tune Away unlike the N.A. motors. The 2.5 GTS motors are close to 450 bhp with a stage 1 tune. The 2.0 to 350+.
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By FlatSix
#62555
No, I meant that the story is funny for exactly the reasons you described. "Hans! Mr. Gates is being lapped by Worf in a base Cayman! This is not permissible!!!"

My bad, I didn't know that about PEC, since all my Porsches have been "pre-owned" - I thought the 991 TT guy might be driving his own car being delivered there. :redface: My apologies.

Like I said, I have a soft spot for the mid-engined cars and for the four cylinder cars. With the turbos, as you note, software is your friend. I drove a 981S with PDK at Quail out here a few years ago and coming from a 6-speed, it was mind-blowing. Ironically, this was the same year Wolfgang Porsche said they had absolutely no plans to introduce a four cylinder car. :nono: I will have to try to drive one of these to see.
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By fpena944
#62559
Sort of off-subject but not really...

Friend is interested in a base 718 and sees that on paper the S is not significantly faster.

For street use I'm thinking the base is probably sufficient, right?
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By worf
#62564
FlatSix wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:17 pm No, I meant that the story is funny for exactly the reasons you described. "Hans! Mr. Gates is being lapped by Worf in a base Cayman! This is not permissible!!!"
Oh man. If I'd know it was Bill in that Turbo I would have really fucked with him. :roflmao:

FlatSix wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:17 pm My bad, I didn't know that about PEC, since all my Porsches have been "pre-owned" - I thought the 991 TT guy might be driving his own car being delivered there. :redface: My apologies.
No worries. It's a reasonable assumption on the surface. But, if they let you track your new Porsche during the break in period (which is uniquely-confining in the US only) then PAG's lawyers would have embolisms.

FlatSix wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:17 pm Like I said, I have a soft spot for the mid-engined cars and for the four cylinder cars.
One point in the 718's favor for me was that so many people DON'T like it. Owning 928s for 20+ years where everyone hates them too, it made sense. :roflmao:

FlatSix wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:17 pm With the turbos, as you note, software is your friend. I drove a 981S with PDK at Quail out here a few years ago and coming from a 6-speed, it was mind-blowing.
PDK is great. Especially if you DD in stop-and-go traffic. In that environment PDK >> MT.

FlatSix wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:17 pm I will have to try to drive one of these to see.
Your sig says you're in S.F. Skip down to PEC LA. For $450 or $495 you can thrash a PDK 718 or 718S for an hour and a half. Probably not quite as good with Covid Rules as it was for me in 2019. But, it was money well spent and in terms of learning the most efficient dollars I have ever spent. And that includes multiple multi-day driving schools. Very concentrated learning there.
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By worf
#62570
fpena944 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:22 pm Sort of off-subject but not really...

Friend is interested in a base 718 and sees that on paper the S is not significantly faster.

For street use I'm thinking the base is probably sufficient, right?
Maybe. The S is seat-of-the-pants faster. By a smidge. If you drive them back to back. If you have a sensitive butt-o-meter then you can perceive differences in lag between the two.

So much of the modern Porsche "experience" is tied to the specific options that I would opine that it is more important to understand the options that you must have than it is to worry about Base versus S (in 718 Land.) Back 'in the day' - at least in 928 land and from what I see in 944 land - options were mostly about exterior color and leather bits. Now, however, there are 4 (or 5 when you get to fixed buckets) seat options. Then there are the performance options.

Seats: two architectures with a manual and power option for each. Based upon my forum reading, 50% of people don't care. 25% can't stand sitting in one architecture and 25% can't stand the other. Test sitting and a not-short test drive required.

Performance: Base suspension? PASM? SPASM? Limited slip diff not standard. Sport Chrono? etc.

I would rather have a base 718 with all of the performance options than a "standard" S.

If your friend just wants a cool car and doesn't know the difference between LSD and LSD then the options, other than seats, probably won't matter. If your friend is a gear head then the performance stuff will matter.

From what I've seen on-the-lot base 718s "suffer" from being ordered as "wife" cars with no performance options but full leather and 20 inch wheels. On the other hand on-the-lot 718S are ordered "optioned up" with both performance and "foo foo" options to make them way more expensive that the 718 bases sharing lot space.

Seat architecture - This is the most important choice. If your friend is in the latter 50% that has a strong preference for one seat architecture or the other then he/she needs to know before purchase!

And then, of course there's the PDK vs. MT. If your friend has strong option preferences and wants MT, it will be damn near impossible to find one used. Or a long predator-like wait and pounce when the right one pops up. PDKs will be all over the lots. MTs will be rare.
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By fpena944
#62636
worf wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:06 pm
fpena944 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:22 pm Sort of off-subject but not really...

Friend is interested in a base 718 and sees that on paper the S is not significantly faster.

For street use I'm thinking the base is probably sufficient, right?
Maybe. The S is seat-of-the-pants faster. By a smidge. If you drive them back to back. If you have a sensitive butt-o-meter then you can perceive differences in lag between the two.

So much of the modern Porsche "experience" is tied to the specific options that I would opine that it is more important to understand the options that you must have than it is to worry about Base versus S (in 718 Land.) Back 'in the day' - at least in 928 land and from what I see in 944 land - options were mostly about exterior color and leather bits. Now, however, there are 4 (or 5 when you get to fixed buckets) seat options. Then there are the performance options.

Seats: two architectures with a manual and power option for each. Based upon my forum reading, 50% of people don't care. 25% can't stand sitting in one architecture and 25% can't stand the other. Test sitting and a not-short test drive required.

Performance: Base suspension? PASM? SPASM? Limited slip diff not standard. Sport Chrono? etc.

I would rather have a base 718 with all of the performance options than a "standard" S.

If your friend just wants a cool car and doesn't know the difference between LSD and LSD then the options, other than seats, probably won't matter. If your friend is a gear head then the performance stuff will matter.

From what I've seen on-the-lot base 718s "suffer" from being ordered as "wife" cars with no performance options but full leather and 20 inch wheels. On the other hand on-the-lot 718S are ordered "optioned up" with both performance and "foo foo" options to make them way more expensive that the 718 bases sharing lot space.

Seat architecture - This is the most important choice. If your friend is in the latter 50% that has a strong preference for one seat architecture or the other then he/she needs to know before purchase!

And then, of course there's the PDK vs. MT. If your friend has strong option preferences and wants MT, it will be damn near impossible to find one used. Or a long predator-like wait and pounce when the right one pops up. PDKs will be all over the lots. MTs will be rare.
My friend is kind of funny in the sense that no matter how many times I tell him that 0-60 times really aren't that important, it's a key metric for him when he is purchasing any vehicle. He's got an M-series BMW and an AMG Mercedes, but is now looking for something more sporty to add to his fleet.

He is about 6'4" so I did tell him he really needs to do an extended test drive to make sure the car is comfortable for him. But his plan is to look at a 718 from around the year 2018. If he feels the performance isn't up to par he is considering chipping it but I keep telling him once he learns how to take corners the straight line speed just won't matter as much.

Appreciate the feedback on the options and finding one configured ideally for your needs. He will likely just be using it to commute to and from the golf course (so bag storage is important for him) so I don't think he needs a lot of performance-related options and might actually be happier with the luxury selections instead. He'll start looking in the Spring so if we're back in NC by the time he starts then I'll join him on his search.
User avatar
By worf
#62673
fpena944 wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:15 am My friend is kind of funny in the sense that no matter how many times I tell him that 0-60 times really aren't that important, ... He's got an M-series BMW and an AMG Mercedes, but is now looking for something more sporty to add to his fleet.
... He will likely just be using it to commute to and from the golf course (so bag storage is important for him)
Good background. Based upon what you write your friend should look at C8s(*). He will not be happy with a 718 4-pot. Unless he comes to a revelation that driving a slow car fast is more challenging/fun/rewarding than driving a fast car slow.

He may also not fit in one. And it won’t carry a passenger AND a set of clubs.

(*) Besides the fact that it ticks the 0-60, $$ and mid-engine boxes, it was *specifically* engineered to carry at least one bag of clubs.
User avatar
By FlatSix
#62698
I've seen 987s with clubs in the back - does that not work in the 718?

This is important. (Didn't that use to be a design criterion?)

I can get two sets of clubs, a case of wine, the wife, and luggage for a weekend in my 993. Unfortunately we also have a dog. :banghead: I suppose this is why Cayennes exist.
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By XR4Tim
#62719
You can get clubs in the hatch of a 718 Cayman. You won't get them in the Boxster without using the passenger's seat.
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By worf
#62735
FlatSix wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:32 pm I've seen 987s with clubs in the back - does that not work in the 718?
I dunno. See below. I've never tried to stuff a 987. But the rear hatch area on a 981/718 isn't wide.

FlatSix wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:32 pm This is important. (Didn't that use to be a design criterion?)
I always thought that was an American thing.

Now, Corvettes definitely are designed around clubs. My wife takes naps in the trunk of her Z06 between DE sessions.

FlatSix wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:32 pm I can get two sets of clubs, a case of wine, the wife, and luggage for a weekend in my 993.
And I can stuff the wife, two helmets and two weeks worth of luggage for a European vacation in the 991: Back seats.

XR4Tim wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:23 pm You can get clubs in the hatch of a 718 Cayman. You won't get them in the Boxster without using the passenger's seat.

Ok. If you say so. I'm not a golfer, but my metal spatial 3d model tells me that clubs won't fit cross-wise in the rear hatch and thus would have to go length wise and protrude frontwards between the two front seats. If it does fit cross-wise there won't be room to spare I would think.

I'm 'out' on the golf bag thing. I've got a 50 or 60 year-old set of hand-me-down illegal clubs in a dusty bag somewhere that I haven't seen in years.

718 hatch is either almost identical or identical to 981:
Image
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By XR4Tim
#62755
worf wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:05 pm
XR4Tim wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:23 pm You can get clubs in the hatch of a 718 Cayman. You won't get them in the Boxster without using the passenger's seat.

Ok. If you say so. I'm not a golfer, but my metal spatial 3d model tells me that clubs won't fit cross-wise in the rear hatch and thus would have to go length wise and protrude frontwards between the two front seats. If it does fit cross-wise there won't be room to spare I would think.

I'm 'out' on the golf bag thing. I've got a 50 or 60 year-old set of hand-me-down illegal clubs in a dusty bag somewhere that I haven't seen in years.

718 hatch is either almost identical or identical to 981:
Image
You have to pull the fabric cargo cover out, and the clubs go diagonally between the strut towers. Larger bags definitely won't fit, but smaller bags will.
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By fpena944
#62756
I've told him that the golf bags might have to sit in the front seat but he says he's measured and his bag would fit in the back of a Cayman diagonally.

The C8 isn't going to do it for him. He's not a fan of the interior although loves the performance. He was also thinking Jaguar F-type or BMW i8 so he's pretty much all over the place with his choices. But he seems to be settled in now on the 718 so trying to figure out if it'll work for him and his lifestyle.
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By FlatSix
#62777
I've seen clubs in the back of a 987 running front to back (longitudinally??? :confused: ); you have to take the long clubs out and lay them diagonally (this is pretty much true in most cars today anyway) and you can't be carrying Tiger's staff bag.

IIRC accommodating a set of clubs was a design criterion for the 911. know yer customer.
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By worf
#62848
XR4Tim wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:37 pm You have to pull the fabric cargo cover out, and the clubs go diagonally between the strut towers. Larger bags definitely won't fit, but smaller bags will.
Yeah, ...

FlatSix wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:34 pm I've seen clubs in the back of a 987 running front to back (longitudinally??? :confused: ); you have to take the long clubs out and lay them diagonally (this is pretty much true in most cars today anyway) and you can't be carrying Tiger's staff bag.
... I guess diagonal would be my next choice? Best "point" them at them at the empty passenger seat.

FlatSix wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:34 pm IIRC accommodating a set of clubs was a design criterion for the 911. know yer customer.
I guess you fold down the rear seats and put them on the resulting "deck?"
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By worf
#62851
fpena944 wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:39 pm The C8 isn't going to do it for him. ... He was also thinking Jaguar F-type or BMW i8 so he's pretty much all over the place with his choices. But he seems to be settled in now on the 718 so trying to figure out if it'll work for him and his lifestyle.
Ummm... sounds like he's going through "automotive puberty" and looking to hook-up with anything willing and mildly pretty. :eyepop:

i8? That's gotta be the automotive equivalent of butter face.
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By fpena944
#63276
worf wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:26 pm
fpena944 wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:39 pm The C8 isn't going to do it for him. ... He was also thinking Jaguar F-type or BMW i8 so he's pretty much all over the place with his choices. But he seems to be settled in now on the 718 so trying to figure out if it'll work for him and his lifestyle.
Ummm... sounds like he's going through "automotive puberty" and looking to hook-up with anything willing and mildly pretty. :eyepop:

i8? That's gotta be the automotive equivalent of butter face.
I think you're right. He calls me up and asks me about different vehicles all the time. I have told him for his needs I think that a 911 would best suit him. But I think he wants the newest he can afford and just looking at dollar amounts the 718 is quite attractive for him compared to an older 911.
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By FlatSix
#63634
So I went to the Porsche USA website and I must say the "compare" function is crap. Tried to compare the base 718 with the T and they are exactly the same except for height and price as far as the comparator is concerned. When you look at the tech specs, the T lists as heavier than the base (longer and wider but exactly the weight of my 993 btw).

Is there any good side-by-side?
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By worf
#63680
FlatSix wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:05 pm So I went to the Porsche USA website and I must say the "compare" function is crap.
Yup. 'round 'bout late 2016 when the .2s came out for MY'17 Porsche dumbed down the comparison feature making it as useless as every other manufacturer's.

FlatSix wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:05 pm Is there any good side-by-side?
Nope. I spent a few minutes looking around. Nothing that contains the T.

*Maybe* dealers have a 2021 or 2020 brochure with the comparison table that includes the T. dunno.

FlatSix wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:05 pm When you look at the tech specs, the T lists as heavier than the base (longer and wider but exactly the weight of my 993 btw).
So... first thing, in case you haven't heard, is that EU standards for reporting weight changed in 2020 (IIRC, maybe 2019) such that it is problematic to compare with previous years. Now, weights for a model must be reported with no options - only standard equipment. Previously, weights could be reported with options. Thus, Porsche always reported weights with every weight-saving option available.

So, the T is "heavier" than the base because it has some of the base's options as standard equipment.

FlatSix wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:05 pm Tried to compare the base 718 with the T and they are exactly the same except for height and price as far as the comparator is concerned.
Off the top of my head:

These are the base options that are standard on the T:
- 20" wheels
- Sport Chrono
- Sport PASM (PASM and normal N/A, SPASM not available on base)
- PVT
- manual Sport Seats Plus
(- PSE standard on all 718 4-bangers as of 2019)

These are options available only on the T (not on the base, S, or GTS)
- fixed sport bucket seats (available on GTS)
- power seats with manual tilt/telescope column
- sport-tex (not alcantera, but a nylon-derived "cloth") interior

The T also has some "unique" stuff like the short throw shifter, GT4/Spyder cloth door pulls, the exterior stuff, etc.

Probably a few other odds and ends, but, like I said: off the top of my head.

And there may be some 'magic software sauce.' See forthcoming post in the other thread.
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