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By worf
#66403
Fox_ wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:06 pm Rest of driver side gear looks like passenger side gear.

WTF?
No idea. I see wear like that every once in a while.
Fox_ wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:06 pm Thought's on the "machinoprime" gears?
None.
Lo0ks similar to the one’s Roger was selling.
User avatar
By Fox_
#66407
SeanR wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:20 pm Roger has a better price on those same gears. Don't know levels of stock though. I've used a few sets.
I sent an email.


I've also got an oil leak that I thought was the pressure sender, but I've now traced all the way up to either the valve cover or cam seal. :banghead:
User avatar
By Stepson
#66505
Last cam cover gasket that I had that leaked, I told myself that I would never do one again without pulling the engine. Your situation may be different, but it is much easier to get to everything, and easier to clean everything , and easier to torque everything that you need to torque with the engine on a stand. YMMV
User avatar
By Fox_
#66719
ROG100 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:41 am In stock and $499 the pair
Checked the website, can't find it in the catalog.
User avatar
By linderpat
#66729
ROG100 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:41 am In stock and $499 the pair
Wow, that's a good price for the pair.
User avatar
By SeanR
#66731
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:56 am
ROG100 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:41 am In stock and $499 the pair
Checked the website, can't find it in the catalog.
went to 928sRus.com

clicked search and entered "cam gears"

https://928srus.com/products/928-105-53 ... daba&_ss=r
User avatar
By Fox_
#66734
SeanR wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:33 pm
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:56 am
ROG100 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:41 am In stock and $499 the pair
Checked the website, can't find it in the catalog.
went to 928sRus.com

clicked search and entered "cam gears"

https://928srus.com/products/928-105-53 ... daba&_ss=r
Did the same, wasn't there.

Rodger sent a link, came up page not found.

Working now, unsure if problem with mobile or what.

~~~

What's the 10 second version on cam seals? Worth it?

~~~


Welp, I'm already almost $2,000 deep into this water pump job. :smile:
User avatar
By worf
#66756
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:37 pm What's the 10 second version on cam seals? Worth it?
When you remove the gears and the 'spiders' behind them you'll be able to look at the seals.

If not wet with oil, if you don't have the right tools, or if you've not done enough lip seals to be confident, not worth it. If just 'sweaty' leave'em.

My $0.0928 --^
User avatar
By SeanR
#66788
worf wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:51 pm
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:37 pm What's the 10 second version on cam seals? Worth it?
When you remove the gears and the 'spiders' behind them you'll be able to look at the seals.

If not wet with oil, if you don't have the right tools, or if you've not done enough lip seals to be confident, not worth it. If just 'sweaty' leave'em.

My $0.0928 --^
That's how I do it. Or don't do it.
User avatar
By Geza-aka-Zombo
#66790
Interesting that the wear is on the top of the teeth, none really on the inner surface which transfers the drive load. I get the sense this indicates too much tension in the belt. Perhaps the experts here can comment.
User avatar
By worf
#66793
Geza-aka-Zombo wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:16 pm Interesting that the wear is on the top of the teeth, none really on the inner surface which transfers the drive load. I get the sense this indicates too much tension in the belt. Perhaps the experts here can comment.
Passenger side is usually much more worn that driver's side. And it's the passenger side gear that is closest to the tensioner roller. The left (driver) side has less belt wrap. Slightly. So maybe more 'load' on top of teeth rather than sides?

If I recall correctly, whenever I've seen driver's side cam gear wear far in excess of passenger it was '85-'86 32v.

Most of the 'fleet' has too much history to confidently assess cause and effect. Maybe at the last belt or belt before the last the cam gears were swapped to 'even out' the wear? Who TF knows.

The original gears - in my experience - should last 75k-100k miles with an always-properly tensioned belt. I have seen gears worn sharp after 5k-miles on the first non-factory belt (17k-miles total) with a far-too-tight belt. I have see a belt missing 11 (or was it 12?) teeth (in a row) after 3k-miles with a tensioner screwed all the way in.
User avatar
By Fox_
#66817
I checked the tension before I took the belt off.

It was on the tight side of the notch with a kempf tool.

I was the last one to adjust it, sure as hell going to check it more often with the new cam gears...
User avatar
By SeanR
#66820
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:50 pm I checked the tension before I took the belt off.

It was on the tight side of the notch with a kempf tool.

I was the last one to adjust it, sure as hell going to check it more often with the new cam gears...
Just set it at the tight end of the window and re-check it at 1500 miles. New gears will not wear like the old ones.
User avatar
By Fox_
#67642
Waiting on parts gives more time for cleaning and inspection...
PXL_20210320_201052713~2.jpg
PXL_20210320_201059667~2.jpg
User avatar
By worf
#67646
You know that the “bushing” on the push rod is not OE? Right?
User avatar
By Fox_
#67647
worf wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:30 pm You know that the “bushing” on the push rod is not OE? Right?
Seems like heat shrink.

Now the question is... is there a replacement for this without paying $$$$$

Think I found it... and it's $$$ for a little piece of copper.

Not sure about the proper bushing though.

Edit: Pretty sure this is it
https://928srus.com/products/928-105-57 ... tic-sleeve
User avatar
By Stepson
#67672
Fox, I have an extra one of those that you can have if you want it.
User avatar
By worf
#67700
Fox_ wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:36 pm 928-105-574-01-plastic-sleeve
Yup -^

And there's the spring and washer too (not sure if those are MIA):
928 105 577 03
900 025 008 04 (10mm x 19mm washer, probably available at your local hardware store if not in a box in your garage...)
User avatar
By Fox_
#67702
worf wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:12 pm
Fox_ wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:36 pm 928-105-574-01-plastic-sleeve
Yup -^

And there's the spring and washer too (not sure if those are MIA):
928 105 577 03
900 025 008 04 (10mm x 19mm washer, probably available at your local hardware store if not in a box in your garage...)
Rest of it is there, just not shown.

The circuit *was* functional.
Stepson wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:45 pm Fox, I have an extra one of those that you can have if you want it.
The bridge piece or the sleeve?
User avatar
By Stepson
#67737
The bridge piece. I'll send along a piece of shrink tube if you need that. LOL:)
User avatar
By Fox_
#67743
Stepson wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:59 pm The bridge piece. I'll send along a piece of shrink tube if you need that. LOL:)
That is very generous I might have to take you up on that offer.
User avatar
By MFranke
#67954
That cam gear wear looks consistent with the wear I saw on one of my 928's at about the 165k miles mark.
The new Machino Prime aftermarket cam gears are very nice. There are some differences to the original cam gears, such as weight. I made a video a few months ago comparing them.

User avatar
By Fox_
#68113
928-105-615-00 vs 928-105-615-01

Contact bridge.

Anyone know the difference? Does it matter?

EDIT: NVM figured it out.
User avatar
By 3.2 Targa
#68118
Stepson wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:38 am Last cam cover gasket that I had that leaked, I told myself that I would never do one again without pulling the engine. Your situation may be different, but it is much easier to get to everything, and easier to clean everything , and easier to torque everything that you need to torque with the engine on a stand. YMMV
And find all the remaining nuts/bolts. :deadhorse: :hitfan: :hitfan: :hitfan:
User avatar
By Stepson
#68168
3.2 Targa wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:58 pm
And find all the remaining nuts/bolts. :deadhorse: :hitfan: :hitfan: :hitfan:
Now dammit Scott, there was only 1 bolt missing and it was actually there in a very safe place inside the engine until I revved the engine. It then moved between the cam and outer wall of the cam cover at which point it proceeded to launch itself through the cam cover and out into the fresh air. (LOL now. pouted a LOT then) :roflmao:
User avatar
By SeanR
#68172
Stepson wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:03 pm
3.2 Targa wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:58 pm
And find all the remaining nuts/bolts. :deadhorse: :hitfan: :hitfan: :hitfan:
Now dammit Scott, there was only 1 bolt missing and it was actually there in a very safe place inside the engine until I revved the engine. It then moved between the cam and outer wall of the cam cover at which point it proceeded to launch itself through the cam cover and out into the fresh air. (LOL now. pouted a LOT then) :roflmao:
Doesn't Brad have that cam carrier hanging on his wall now? That's a classic event for sure.
User avatar
By 3.2 Targa
#68184
SeanR wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:08 pm
Stepson wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:03 pm
3.2 Targa wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:58 pm
And find all the remaining nuts/bolts. :deadhorse: :hitfan: :hitfan: :hitfan:
Now dammit Scott, there was only 1 bolt missing and it was actually there in a very safe place inside the engine until I revved the engine. It then moved between the cam and outer wall of the cam cover at which point it proceeded to launch itself through the cam cover and out into the fresh air. (LOL now. pouted a LOT then) :roflmao:
Doesn't Brad have that cam carrier hanging on his wall now? That's a classic event for sure.
Yep. Its in the museum.
SeanR liked this
User avatar
By Fox_
#68392
Okay, apparently 928-105-615-01 is a rare part.

Trying to get one in by this weekend and not having any luck.
User avatar
By worf
#68412
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:51 pm Okay, apparently 928-105-615-01 is a rare part.

Trying to get one in by this weekend and not having any luck.
928 607 110 00 is the ‘89+ version. it is cheaper and works better. and is probably in stock somewhere.

If you need to be ‘original’ go to the hardware store, by a small sheet of copper of the same thickness, use your busted one as a template and make a new one.

That latter, I did a long time ago, when a belt needed to be closed up that day.
User avatar
By Fox_
#68474
worf wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:05 pm
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:51 pm Okay, apparently 928-105-615-01 is a rare part.

Trying to get one in by this weekend and not having any luck.
928 607 110 00 is the ‘89+ version. it is cheaper and works better. and is probably in stock somewhere.

If you need to be ‘original’ go to the hardware store, by a small sheet of copper of the same thickness, use your busted one as a template and make a new one.

That latter, I did a long time ago, when a belt needed to be closed up that day.
Okay, I didn't get a concrete answer on whether it matters or not.

Talked to someone else that said it did.

Considered the copper sheet.

Thanks.
User avatar
By worf
#68477
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:00 pm
Okay, I didn't get a concrete answer on whether it matters or not.
That what matters?
User avatar
By Fox_
#68479
worf wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:16 pm
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:00 pm
Okay, I didn't get a concrete answer on whether it matters or not.
That what matters?
00 vs 01
User avatar
By worf
#68507
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:21 pm
worf wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:16 pm
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:00 pm
Okay, I didn't get a concrete answer on whether it matters or not.
That what matters?
00 vs 01
If you have pre-‘87 it matters. I thought you had an S4. The picture above looks S3-ish now that I stare at it.
User avatar
By Fox_
#68509
worf wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:53 pm If you have pre-‘87 it matters. I thought you had an S4. The picture above looks S3-ish now that I stare at it.
It's an 86.5 S3.

Added to the signature.


Rog's site, which is the only information I've found, list 01 85+ and 00 16v
User avatar
By worf
#68516
Fox_ wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:59 pm Rog's site, which is the only information I've found, list 01 85+ and 00 16v
16v and 32v have different roller carrier arm. So, quite possible tension circuit bridge are different lengths/shapes.

http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-part ... ion=103-10
User avatar
By Stepson
#68646
Fox,

I'm sure that I have both types.

I thought the copper sheet type was superceded by the woven/insulated braid type, but other than that were the same.
User avatar
By worf
#68668
Stepson wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:34 am I thought the copper sheet type was superceded by the woven/insulated braid type, but other than that were the same.
It was for '89. But, parts manual shows part number break for 16v vs 32v for both bridge and roller carrier for S3. And both S3 carriers are different from S4. So...

The later part might work with an S3 32v carrier, but without all four parts to look at I don't want to commit to that.
User avatar
By Fox_
#69366
Porken tool is back ordered.

Any tips on "eyeballing" cam timing while I wait for tool?

Not sure I intend to run it, jut want it back together.
User avatar
By Stepson
#69449
Fox,
Are you saying that the Porken tool for adjusting the cam gears to the cam is back ordered? I would have loaned you mine if I had known. I just finished using it on the GT.
Would Herman in Rockport loan you his if he has a set? You might call him when you get ready for it
User avatar
By Fox_
#69455
Stepson wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:46 am Fox,
Are you saying that the Porken tool for adjusting the cam gears to the cam is back ordered? I would have loaned you mine if I had known. I just finished using it on the GT.
Would Herman in Rockport loan you his if he has a set? You might call him when you get ready for it
Yes. Something, something manufacturing defect had to remake some component.

Herman, AFAIK hasn't had a 928 since Harvey or before. Haven't talked to him in a few years.
User avatar
By worf
#69462
Fox_ wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:03 pm Any tips on "eyeballing" cam timing while I wait for tool?
If you are reasonably certain the the current timing is ok then:
- with crank at 45° BTDC, mark each gear with respect to the notch in the backplate.
- settle the cams with the belt off and crank at 45° BTDC
- mark - with different color - each gear with respect to the notch in the backplate.
- remove gears
- transfer all paint marks to new gears
- install new gears at second paint mark
- rotate to first mark
- install belt
User avatar
By Fox_
#69482
Bad news,

One of the camshaft seals behind the "spider" needs to be replaced, driver side. Does anyone have a write up on replacing this? Basically, Is this just a lip seal or is there a dumbass trap?

Also, the other "spider" is stuck, didn't have enough oil leaking on it.

EDIT:

Either way, new seal is in there.
User avatar
By worf
#69488
Fox_ wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:48 pm Basically, Is this just a lip seal or is there a dumbass trap?
It’s just a lip seal.

There’s a special two-piece factory driver tool that I use.

But, I suppose if you’re careful you can do without.
User avatar
By Stepson
#69521
Fox_ wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:32 pm
Yes. Something, something manufacturing defect had to remake some component.

Herman, AFAIK hasn't had a 928 since Harvey or before. Haven't talked to him in a few years.
But that doesn't mean he doesn't still have his tools.
Let me know if you need my 32ver, and I'll send it to you.
User avatar
By Fox_
#69912
Walp, eyeballin didn't get me as close as I'd hoped.

Shot a couple layers of black paint through the slots on the cam gear onto the hub. Oh I'll just match it with the slots new gears and use some M5 bolts to hold the gear to the hub while I torque.

All said and done... I guess eyeballin has it's limits. I'm stuck waiting on the Porken tool.
PXL_20210314_195705857~2.jpg
vs
PXL_20210330_012006268~2.jpg
PXL_20210330_011949268~2.jpg
I can't get it any closer as is. The more I look at it, the more it seems the passenger side needs to move a tooth to the right...



Anyways, big thanks to @Stepson and other for their help.
PXL_20210330_010607532.jpg
User avatar
By Stepson
#70069
Fox,
Do you want me to send you my Porken tool to time your cams to your cam gears? Just let me know.
User avatar
By Fox_
#70151
Stepson wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:53 pm Fox,
Do you want me to send you my Porken tool to time your cams to your cam gears? Just let me know.
Emailed Rodger today,
They were supposed to be here late last week but one of the kit parts was machined incorrectly and had to be redone.

Fingers crossed late this week.
Porken tool is still out this week + shipping minimum.

So, yes, I'll take you up on that offer.


I'm moving and have 2 weeks from this Thursday to be out, so bad time for back ordered parts/tools.
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