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By Bertrand Daoust
#68510
Hi guys,

I'm thinking changing the oil pan gasket on my car to the new one Roger has right now.
The one I have right now (orange one) is leaking a bit.

My question is, should I change the motor mount while in there?
I changed the original ones in 2008 (or so) for what was available from Roger back then. Don't remember what they were exactly. Not Porsche ones for sure.

My thought is to change them as it's not much more work. I would put Volvo mounts. Porsche ones are way to expensive for me. Sorry...

What do you think?
User avatar
By worf
#68518
Selfish answer: leave’em on For Science (so that we have data on how long they last.)

Risk Management Answer: change’em.
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By Geza-aka-Zombo
#68523
After changing them, I recommend looking closely at the coolant and PS hoses. After I did mine, I found the lower rad hose was rubbing an alternator bolt head once pressurized and a PS reservoir hose was rubbing the PS pulley, all because the engine was sitting up higher.
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By Cymadesign
#68528
I just finished doing the same job after going through the same thought process. My oil pan cork gasket was leaking badly and the motor mounts were same vintage as yours. Seemed to be OK but... It is a lot of work to get the crossmember off for the OPG. And only a few minutes mor3 to change the motor mounts. So for me it was an easy decision since the Volvo mounts from Roger are pretty cheap.
Tony
1983 Euro S 5speed green/green
User avatar
By ROG100
#68774
Now that the Porsche mounts are $500 each even more reason to use the Volvo Mounts.
Never had an issue in nearly 8 years and thousands of mounts.
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By Mrmerlin
#68793
I have installed many sets of Volvo mounts , and now with the metal strap on the mount it makes it easier without fitting the finger plate.
checkmate1996 liked this
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By oups59
#68851
Stan,

What is the finger plate? Is it what Porsche call a "stop" part #928-375-371-00 ? Number #3 in the picture?
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By oups59
#68852
Bertrand,

You can use my lift if you want. It will be a lot easier :cool:
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By Geza-aka-Zombo
#68879
oups59 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:49 am Stan,

What is the finger plate? Is it what Porsche call a "stop" part #928-375-371-00 ? Number #3 in the picture?
Image
I think that is what Stan was referring to, #3.

As I recall, #2 & 3 work together to limit engine movement to a degree if the MMs fail, like in a collision. I'm not familiar with the straps being discussed; is it possible these are electrical bonding straps for grounding across the rubber mount and not structural?
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By Mrmerlin
#68887
yes part 3 is deleted, the metal straps appear to be strong enough to hold possibly and engine being flung
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By SeanR
#68891
Geza-aka-Zombo wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:55 am
oups59 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:49 am Stan,

What is the finger plate? Is it what Porsche call a "stop" part #928-375-371-00 ? Number #3 in the picture?
Image
I think that is what Stan was referring to, #3.

As I recall, #2 & 3 work together to limit engine movement to a degree if the MMs fail, like in a collision. I'm not familiar with the straps being discussed; is it possible these are electrical bonding straps for grounding across the rubber mount and not structural?
No, they are not grounding straps LOL.

Safety straps from Volvo.
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By Geza-aka-Zombo
#68938
Strap on left looks suspect to me, structurally; cable on right, I can see doing the job. I suppose it's just a design evolution.

Image

I did the attached write-up a while back on engine mounts for anyone interested.
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By Bertrand Daoust
#68941
Thanks guys ! :thumbup:

So the only thing to remember is to not use #3. That's it.
Right?

Luc, a lift would be great but you would have to feed me and find me a bed for few days! :roflmao:

Now just need to order the parts via Roger.

Thanks again! :rockon:
User avatar
By oups59
#68977
Bertrand Daoust wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:19 pm Thanks guys ! :thumbup:

So the only thing to remember is to not use #3. That's it.
Right?

Luc, a lift would be great but you would have to feed me and find me a bed for few days! :roflmao:

Now just need to order the parts via Roger.

Thanks again! :rockon:
Beer and wine also included :beerchug:
Bertrand Daoust liked this
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By oups59
#68978
Mrmerlin wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:21 am yes part 3 is deleted, the metal straps appear to be strong enough to hold possibly and engine being flung
When I did mine, I kept the plates....Do I have to remove them?
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By Don Smith
#68987
Aw, geez, do we have to go back in there? It looks like we’ll all be sleeping over. I’ll bring the beer!!
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By SeanR
#68989
oups59 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:24 pm
Mrmerlin wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:21 am yes part 3 is deleted, the metal straps appear to be strong enough to hold possibly and engine being flung
When I did mine, I kept the plates....Do I have to remove them?
Nope. I still have them on mine and a lot of customers cars w/o the straps. I just liked the way the engine sits with out the plate, and the ease of installation with out that damn thing. Never had any issues with vibrations like some have said they had but I tend to pay attention to the details most days.
User avatar
By h2pmr
#69016
Geza-aka-Zombo wrote:After changing them, I recommend looking closely at the coolant and PS hoses. After I did mine, I found the lower rad hose was rubbing an alternator bolt head once pressurized and a PS reservoir hose was rubbing the PS pulley, all because the engine was sitting up higher.
the orange one has metal braided covers over the hoses under the bonnet, just for show, but the alt bolt head had rubbed right through the braiding, quite surprising how much the hoses can expand.
although my Rad is an alloy version so that might also contribute.

cheers
Phil
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By worf
#69032
There is an accommodation on the S4 fan shroud (and I think also the S3 shroud) for a big zip-tie to retain the lower radiator hose against the shroud.
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By MFranke
#69064
I've kept the plates, with the straps as well.

If you delete the plates, won't that affect height and the ability to gauge wear?
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By Mrmerlin
#69225
you use the MM strap with no plate,
or remove the strap and use the plate.
not both as that will lift the engine even higher,
2mm more or so?
User avatar
By MFranke
#69333
Image
Image

Hopefully these pics may help. I couldn't find a plate to measure, but found a mount bracket, which I think is about the same thickness.

Assuming bracket and plate are the same thickness, it appears that a plate delete would lower the engine net by about 1.5mm. Whereas leaving the plate and strap would raise it a net 1mm. This is all assuming the Volvo mounts compress about the same as the original mounts. All that said, I have installed a couple sets of these with the straps, and plates, and the engine height was fine. It looked correct relative to the lower crossmember. I would not worry too much either way.
Last edited by MFranke on Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Bertrand Daoust
#69336
Parts ordered!

The first time I did this job, I did it on a friend lift (not Luc!) 10 minutes from my place.
This time I'm gone do it on my back with the car on jack stands and now 58 years old!
Wish me good luck... :)

I'll take all the time it needs.
No rush so it should be good.
I hope... :smile:

Thanks again.
MFranke liked this
By JBRob007
#70893
We’ve done so many MMs & Oil Pan Gaskets in the last 6 months we’ve got it down pat. A lift would be nice though - getting a little old to be lying on the floor and it’s a MESSY job! The Volvo MMs work great and we discard the lower plate. I assume the tensile strength of the strap is pretty hefty 😎
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By Bertrand Daoust
#70903
Thanks for the encouragement words Joel.

Not started yet but maybe I'll lift the car today!
I may go as far as removing the belly pan... :tongue:
Need to start somewhere...
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By Geza-aka-Zombo
#70904
I'm sure that POS 0.020 thick strap would work fine keeping the engine in place during a MIL-STD-810 40g crash safety shock test.
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By SeanR
#70911
Geza-aka-Zombo wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:54 am I'm sure that POS 0.020 thick strap would work fine keeping the engine in place during a MIL-STD-810 40g crash safety shock test.
Considering that Volvo is renown for their safety record in designs over the decades I'm not going to worry about it. If you are in a 40g crash I think what that strap is doing is the least of your worries.
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By Geza-aka-Zombo
#70921
Let's not mix up 40g shock with 40g acceleration. Personally, I kept the Porsche plate and ditched the strap.

Back in the early '90s, I designed the avionics rack (best pic I can find below) for an F/A-18 System. It was designed to meet the standard at the time 20g functional and 40g crash safety shock (crash safety shock can fail, just not come dislodged from its mounting). Out in the field, cracks were developing on the rack (which held 300 lbs of electronics). Navy wired it up with accelerometers and recorded data during Cat launches. Turns out it was seeing over 100g shock when the Cat disengaged with the landing gear - Pilot sees this same shock - not the same as acceleration as it only lasts milliseconds. See video below how pilot head jerks forward at the end on launch. But long enough to crack a structure, and maybe dislodge and engine. I went out to a Lab in Texas, that had a large enough shaker head to test the system to that level - we took high speed footage - you'd be surprised what can happed in 10msec.



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By JBRob007
#70943
I’ll worry about it when someone catapults a 928 off an aircraft carrier. Otherwise, I’m sure the POS strap will do the job of keeping the engine in the engine bay.
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By MFranke
#70945
Thinking about this more, I may be one those people falling on the side of keeping the factory plate going forward. When I first encountered the Volvo strap, it seemed too flimsy for me to consider it as a crash restraint.. at least for a 928 engine, figuring it maybe as an extra ground, or maybe some kind of travel limit should it or the other side let loose. Looking at the Volvo mounting bolts and hardware, they appear less robust than factory. I wonder if the Volvo mount is originally designed for a smaller engine.

The factory setup appears stronger and, given the finger clearances, appears may limit lash movement more that that strap. Not sure how this factors in to real world or design basis events, or how much it really matters, but I'm assuming Porsche did their testing and had their reasons.

Another thing I think about is that I have used mounts before that did not come with any strap. It is just the mount and the factor plate/bracket setup in that case.
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By oups59
#71106
Good job Bertrand.....
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By Bertrand Daoust
#71509
- Sway bar removed;
- Steering rack plate removed;
- Steering rack pulled down;
- Motor mount lower bolts loosen...

Nothing seized yet. :thumbup:
The last time I did the job, I put anti-seize everywhere.
Very happy I did.
And will again on every bolts...
Gary Knox liked this
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By Bertrand Daoust
#72343
- Steering rack removed. Need to machine and install an external bushing on the passenger side to reduce some radial play;
- Cross member removed;
- Cleaning time before painting or powder coating. Not sure yet wich way I'll go;
- Should get the parts today. Thanks Roger. :thumbup:

Edit: Checked with the powder coating place I've done business with in the past and they don't take inviduals parts right now because of Covid-19 so...
I also need to remove the oil pan.
Parts are in. :thumbup:

Need to do something with this.
The plate is a bit rusty but salvable.
Any suggestion for the insulation pad replacement?
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Empty spaces...
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