8 cylinder front engine iconic vehicle
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By checkmate1996
#72712
Well I just picked this car up from a fellow 928 enthusiast in Tennesse. Being a military man, he travelled a lot and unfortunately the car suffered from deferred maintenance and a lot of tine under cover. It needs work for sure but lots of good bones to start with. It has an interesting history going back to Dave roberts working on the car back in mid 2000s. During that time, the car was installed with Bilsteins over eibachs, 928 specialists sway bars and drop links on the front and rear, x-pipe and dual exhaust and 928 specialist short shifter. The dash, center console and pod were recovered by rob Budd in leather. Typical oil spots around the engine were not visible and overall pretty clean engine. He was also very gracious enough to give me as part of the deal tine of new parts to put on the car. So - let the game’s begin!
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By The Fat Man
#72719
Brad, is that a Euro 16V twin dizzy, or Euro 32V?
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By linderpat
#72722
Welcome to the 85 guards red 5 speed manual club Brad - we are indeed an exclusive bunch! :rockon: Let's seesome of those interior pictures. Here are a couple of mine:
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By Redgt
#72760
It also looks like it has a set of hard to find “club Sport” wheels. They only came one year on the 1989 GT. Check to make sure they are 8” front and 9” rears, if so, they alone are worth big money!

Oh yea, red ones are faster also! :hiding:
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By captainOCD
#72825
Cool
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By checkmate1996
#72836
Thanks all for the replies! Ed- she looks great!

First order of business is dealing with a crank no start condition.

Changed out ezk, fuel pump and lh relays.
Engine and battery terminal grounds sparkling
Grounds on cam towers - sparkling
Changed out fuel pump as old one was bad
Getting fuel pressure and spark at #1 cylinder.
Verified the belt on the distributor is in tact
See fuel upon pulling plug 1
CPS looks newer - I need to verify tach bounce.

Have not changed relay number four yet

Additional tips welcome!
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By linderpat
#72858
Redgt wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:32 pm It also looks like it has a set of hard to find “club Sport” wheels. They only came one year on the 1989 GT. Check to make sure they are 8” front and 9” rears, if so, they alone are worth big money!

Oh yea, red ones are faster also! :hiding:
Good eye Bob, I didn't look closely and just "saw" D90's
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By checkmate1996
#72881
It looks like the tach is dead on crank. Even though the CPS sensor looks in good shape I’m presuming it’s not working. The LH is kicking over the fuel pump in startup so I’m also presuming the computer is ok.

The next thing I’m trying to figure as well is for some reason b23 was cut and sliced into f25 which is the EZK RELAY AND control unit. Any reason why that would occur?
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By Landseer
#72887
I've seen alarm bypassed that way on cars 85 up.

My preference is to unplug the flat 8 pin connector tucked behind panel and bridge there. It's a fat yellow and thin red / blkwire IIRC. Same wires, diff place.

(Just checked, yes, alarm jump. If done instead at 8 pin flat , it will be terminals 1 and 4 that correspond. On alarm delete 85 they install a factory jumper wire across and leave it unplugged.)
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By checkmate1996
#72899
Thanks!!! Makes me feel a little better!
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By Wil
#72941
checkmate1996 wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:31 pm Thanks all for the replies! Ed- she looks great!

First order of business is dealing with a crank no start condition.

Changed out ezk, fuel pump and lh relays.
Engine and battery terminal grounds sparkling
Grounds on cam towers - sparkling
Changed out fuel pump as old one was bad
Getting fuel pressure and spark at #1 cylinder.
Verified the belt on the distributor is in tact
See fuel upon pulling plug 1
CPS looks newer - I need to verify tach bounce.

Have not changed relay number four yet

Additional tips welcome!
If you get only lights, but not a sound when turning the key, it may be the crank sensor. You don't even get the starter solenoid ticking, dead silent. I've only had that happen once in 25 years. If you need to have the CPUs checked, I have used Electronik Repair in AZ. I have also had them rebuild the MAF. I recommend this if it hasn't been done. The performance drops off so gradually, that it made a big difference when reconditioned. I also have an 85 S2 manual.
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By checkmate1996
#72960
All the 85 s2 manual people are jumping out of the wood work!!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Yeah she cranks now but no start. I have a new CPS on order. See if that corrects anything....fingers crossed...
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By Wil
#72973
With CPS it is dead as a doornail, there will be no cranking. At least it was so when it happened to me. Another no start that you can check quickly is Temp Sensor II. I'll have to look at which pins on the CPU connector to check. You can check resistance to get an idea if it is working. It's also a long shot item but it's easy to check.
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By worf
#72986
Wil wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 pm With CPS it is dead as a doornail, there will be no cranking.
That is not the way the system operates. The starter circuit is independent of the CPS. You can even unplug the ECUs and the starter will still crank.
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By h2pmr
#72991
ideal lift for a garage, compressed air or hydraulic operated ?
and would it go any higher?

and a lovely looking car as well

cheers
Phil
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By checkmate1996
#72997
Yeah it’s a good lift. Covers about 80% of what I need to do. Goes up 44”. I’ve had it now for about 16 years. Wow how tine flies.
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By checkmate1996
#73002
Well new Bosch crank position sensor was not the answer. I saw the tach bounce once when cranking but that’s it. Could the computer need rebuilt? Going to check out temp 2 sensor next . ... r
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By checkmate1996
#73032
Temp 2 sensor 2.89 and 2.86 respectively

I did shoot some starting fluid in the intake and she started right up...
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By checkmate1996
#73073
Swapped EZK and LH. No difference ... :banghead:
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By checkmate1996
#73091
Ok since both computer don’t work , I had to start looking elsewhere. Following the test procedure in WSM, it says unplug LH and test voltage on 9 and 5 with ignition on. I am getting nothing. No bueno. It then says if you do not get reading, don’t panic yet, and pull EZK and jumper and pull reading- still nothing.

I have verified power at both u11 and u12. In fact, if I jumper the LH connection at 30/87 I can get a reading at the 9/5 pin outs at voltage with the EZK relay in. (Also I am working with all brand new Bosch relays). So you might say it’s the relay. Well I tried a few and no difference In results. I’ve tried re-reading voltage with the different relays in for the LH and jumper EZK. Still no reading at 9/5 pin out.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!
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By worf
#73123
checkmate1996 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:14 am Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Are you using the EZK troubleshooting guide when you should be using the EZF troubleshooting guide?

Are you writing EZK when you mean EZF?
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By checkmate1996
#73124
LOL - Yes - I meant EZF -- I guess in my mind I like the sound of EZK better...hahaha
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By worf
#73125
checkmate1996 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:50 am LOL - Yes - I meant EZF -- I guess in my mind I like the sound of EZK better...hahaha
Ok. Good.

So, you’re getting spark on #1. Might be a good idea to check at least one more on the other distributor.

And you have fuel on at least one plug.

Starter cranks.

Yes?
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By checkmate1996
#73127
Yes...starter cranks fine and strong. Strong voltage on battery. 13.5+ volts. I'll double check spark on a different distributor...
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By checkmate1996
#73128
I also jumpered the LH just for fun... still no joy..
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By checkmate1996
#73129
Not getting power at 9 & 5 pins on the LH plug seems like path to lead down...
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By worf
#73181
checkmate1996 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:17 am Not getting power at 9 & 5 pins on the LH plug seems like path to lead down...

Don’t have the troubleshooting guide memorized, but if it says you should have power and you don’t then follow that lead.

The troubleshooting guide has never let me down (but, it is possible to run off the edge of it; kinda like ancient mariners when the map of the world was just blank at the edges...)
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By checkmate1996
#73194
Ok: Here's a quick summary update to catch everyone up:

Condition: Strong Crank but no start

Troubleshooting Completed:

CE Panel:
  • Changed out old relays with brand new Bosch relays for fuel injection, EZF, Fuel Pump and LH.
    U11 / U12 show battery voltage
LH Module Testing
Test Point #1 - Turn ignition to off. Unplug LH Module Plug and Test Pins 9 and 5 (ground) for battery voltage. New relays in place. RESULTS: No voltage.
Test Point #2. - Remove EZF relay and jumper 30/87. RESULTS: No Voltage.
Test Point #3 - Reinstall EZF Relay and remove LH relay. Jumper relay 30/87. RESULTS. BATTERY VOLTAGE.
Test Point #4 - All relays in place. Turn ignition to ON. Measure battery voltage at fuel injector. RESULTS: Pulled fuel injector #1 plug. RESULTS: N0 Voltage.
Test Point #5 - Measure Temp 2 sensor at pins 5 & 2 at LH plug. RESULTS: 3.2. Within Spec. This was measured at the temp 2 sensor. RESULTS: 2.89 and 2.86. Within spec.
Test Point #6 - Ground pin 17 on LH plug to engage fuel pump. RESULTS: Fuel pump kicks in.
Test Point #7: Swapped EZF and LH module with known good unit. RESULTS: Nothing.
Test Point #8: Took existing EZF and LH module and installed in known working 928. Results: Car started right up.

Battery:
  • Battery is pulling 13.5+ volts.
Grounds:
  • Engine and battery terminal grounds sparkling
    Grounds on cam towers - sparkling
Ignition:
  • Spark verified on each distributor bank.
    Verified the belt on the distributor is in tact
    Replaced CPS with Brand new Bosch module
Fuel:
  • Changed out old fuel pump as old one was seized
    Getting 46 psi at fuel rail on passenger side.
    See fuel on plug upon pulling plug 1
===
Currently, I decided to remove the CE PANEL and do a complete inspection and clean.
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By checkmate1996
#73240
Two pictures - one is the alarm 8 way flat I believe Chris was talking about in an earlier post. It looks like this was bridged from the factory. If so, did someone make the mistake of doing it twice up front? Also this connection was laying there and not going to anything. I am presuming it’s for an option I don’t have. Finally, I removed everything from the ce panel and cleaned all
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contacts.
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By worf
#73303
checkmate1996 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:05 pm Also this connection was laying there and not going to anything. I am presuming it’s for an option I don’t have.
If this was an '87+ I'd know. I don't see pre-'87s with any regularity.

Those two big-assed red wires look like they might be important. With any luck you might be able to find a 4-pin connector with the right wire colors in the diagrams. If it is an uninstalled option it'll have an M Code next to it.

Or if you can trace it back to a fuse panel connection you can look at the fuse panel page and trace it from there.
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By checkmate1996
#73543
...well it looks like i'm going to have to take a small detour. I noticed several of the injectors hoses leaking. I then went to push on the passenger fuel rail and fuel started spraying out. :banghead: So top end refresh here we come....

After pulling the fuel rail, the injector hoses just slid of the barb fitting. Uh oh!! that's not right. I looked at the diameter of the hose and it's 8mm. It's suppose to be 7mm. And there were no clamps. That's why it was leaking. The hose itself was actually fine.

So I'm half way down from pulling the top of the engine off and doing vacuum line, injectors, etc... :cussing:
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By worf
#73577
I guess it’s a good thing it wasn’t starting.
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By checkmate1996
#73672
Dave- totally agree!

during the tear down - I found something else interesting.... both ignition rotors were 180 degrees off ...
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By checkmate1996
#73770
I’m not sure i should say...it was one of our former vendors. This is an easy mistake to make if you are rushing or not paying attention....
By JBRob007
#73783
Brad use 7.5 mm X 50 mm hoses and 14 mm clamps on both ends - don't over tighten. The 50 mm length ensures the fuel hard lines line up perfectly. The 7.0 mm hoses work but they are a PITA to get on compared to 7.5 which still fit snugly... ask me how i know 🤔
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By checkmate1996
#73805
Thanks Joel! I am just going to order the kit from roger ...
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By SeanR
#73883
checkmate1996 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:11 pm I’m not sure i should say...it was one of our former vendors. This is an easy mistake to make if you are rushing or not paying attention....
This ought to be good. Curious minds want to know. Doesn't rhyme with Marl does it?
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By checkmate1996
#73890
This how I found the distributor
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By checkmate1996
#73891
Anyone see anything wrong with this picture?
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By JBRob007
#73962
That's an option, but be sure they're ALL 50 mm long... just sayin 👌. I'm sure youve done this a few times, but let me know if you need some help... I'm getting pretty good at it 🤓🤓🤓
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By checkmate1996
#79694
After fixing all the grounds, vacuum leaks, broken hoses and cps harness - she runs! :eyepop: :thumbup: :rockon:
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By checkmate1996
#80064
Ask and you shall receive! :)

before picture(s)
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after
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By worf
#80116
checkmate1996 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 11:47 am after
Dayum. Nice.

Did you replate that stuff? Or just clean? If the latter wadya use?
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By checkmate1996
#80128
Thanks Dave for the complement and Ed. I used a company out of Indiana called industrial plating. Old school but very friendly. It’s all yellow zinc plated.

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