Welcome all 928 forum refugees!
User avatar
By Shifted
#17852
Has anyone been following the development of these?

http://liftbars.com/s4.htm

It would be great if the Sharktuning software could do something like this so that you can customize the starting points for ignition advance and other parameters, but enable learning for various cells. That would make it usable for boosted cars. Even better if learning could be enabled for the fuel maps in cells that you don't want 14.7 AFR (like all of the cells hit during WOT). I doubt if we'll ever see any more significant development done on the SharkTuner product, though.

Anyway, the details on these new chips from the "Liftbars" site:

S4.S300s ignition chip (1987-1991)

(This page is being added to! 09/08/2020 - first update)

Individualized performance for your 928 S4!
Automatically creates a custom map for EACH cylinder
Each cylinder is optimized for its own unique airflow and knock tolerances
More power across the rpm range at rpms not available when manual tuning

Available soon with GT and GTS base maps. Custom tunes can be incorporated, too!
EZK new code highlights:
- 8 learned maps, 1 for each cylinder
- Soft rev limit, ignition retard (6400)
- Knock light enabled (with error indication)
Recommendations:
- New knock sensors
- New CPS (crank position sensor)
- New TPS (throttle position switch)
- New hall sensor (cam position)
Required:
- S4 camshafts
91 octane or higher:
- 91 US/AKI (95 EU/RON)
User avatar
By Crumpler
#17916
Never going to happen for the S3’s is it ;)

Very slick, Ken’s done it again.
We forgot to mention the epic Greg v. Porken battles when we were discussing all the previous 928 dust ups in the other thread now that I think about it.

So Darien mentioned physically advancing the timing as well, is that part of the install?
User avatar
By Shifted
#17932
Changing the cam timing is not part of the installation. I think that he just did that for his own performance tuning reasons.

I doubt if there will be a chip like this for any of the cars that don't have knock sensors. It uses the knock detection to know when to retard the timing.

It does make me want to look into an aftermarket ECU to get some modern fuel and ignition management features. Like ignition learning and AFR targets.
User avatar
By Shifted
#18036
Supposedly, these are direct replacement plugin and preprogrammed ECU's for the 928's, including the S3:

http://www.vems.ee/vemspnp/?fbclid=IwAR ... W4o3ZPQXlk

I don't know anything about the VEMS ECU's, but the main thing is that this particular vendor has created a wiring harness adapter, and preloaded programs onto the VEMS ECU. If the VEMS ECU is any good, this might be a pretty interesting option.

Again, I wish that the SharkTuner was being further developed. Even just fixing the current bugs would be nice. But I don't think that's going to happen.
User avatar
By SeanR
#18044
What bugs are you referring to? As far as I know, John Speake is constantly improving it.
Shifted wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:20 am Supposedly, these are direct replacement plugin and preprogrammed ECU's for the 928's, including the S3:

http://www.vems.ee/vemspnp/?fbclid=IwAR ... W4o3ZPQXlk

I don't know anything about the VEMS ECU's, but the main thing is that this particular vendor has created a wiring harness adapter, and preloaded programs onto the VEMS ECU. If the VEMS ECU is any good, this might be a pretty interesting option.

Again, I wish that the SharkTuner was being further developed. Even just fixing the current bugs would be nice. But I don't think that's going to happen.
User avatar
By Shifted
#18047
Here are two big ones that are related and frustrating...it often increments the knock count by 256. It will also incorrectly record cylinder knocks when it incorrectly records which cylinder is being retarded. A cylinder will knock, then it will begin incrementing down, and suddenly it will show that a different cylinder is being retarded for one data line, then switch back to the original cylinder, and increment the knock count twice as a result. Hopefully that doesn't mean that the ECU is ACTUALLY changing which cylinder is being retarded, that would be much worse than just the software not recording it properly.

As far as improvements, I don't think that a new ECU firmware or new desktop software has been released in a long time. I spoke to them about this a few months ago, including some very nice to have and easy to implement improvements, and the response I got amounted to "that would be nice, we'll think about it". You can tell just be looking at the desktop software that the development is far out of date. It's not even a current installation packager.

I'm guessing that the chips themselves limit how sophisticated the logic can be. For example, AFR targets instead of just fuel/rpm/maf targets. Or adaptable ignition timing. Those would be really nice. But, eve without those, it would be nice to have software with consistent logging.

I'm ok with it. It is what it is. And it got me pretty far along. I'll probably have to switch to an aftermarket ECU at some point, though.
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User avatar
By hessank
#18059
He did promise to upgrade the system from an "atmospheric pressure sensor" to a Speed Density system using a MAP sensor.
Do you know if that was done? In my version the vac hose goes to the black box.

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/6 ... alpha.html
Post #7
Originally Posted by Mongo
Oh yea.. I am saving for an ST2 and the Alpha upgrade... since it measures atmospheric pressure, I assume there is a MAP involved?
For this version with load measure with a Throttle pot, there's an atmospheric pressure sensor built into the box. I didn't name it as a "MAP sensor" so it wouldn't be confused with the external MAP sensor that will be used with the Speed-Density version that will become available later.
__________________
John '86 Euro S2 16v
User avatar
By Shifted
#18064
The Alpha system essentially amounts to a MAF delete, right? I think that's an awesome option. I don't think that they went any further than what's in that post, though.

If I spend any more money on the ECU, it's going to have to be in a direction that brings some modern features to bear. Like AFR targets, adaptive ignition timing, coil over plugs, etc.

Which is why Ken's new chip seems interesting. Except he made a reference to it taking a "permanent" set, and it doesn't seem like it's user programmable at all.
User avatar
By ALKada
#18708
I purchased one last night.

Sean, I’ll be glad to let you drive it before and after if you want.
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User avatar
By Shifted
#18816
I've been following all of Ken's comments on the chip. Piecing together the logic used is a little tough, but this is what I gather:

1) The WOT map is not used, just the cruise map (just like what you do when SharkTuning a boosted car).
2) The end user cannot interact with the chip at all (can't program it or connect to it).
3) A light is provided that connects to the EZK. The light will blink if there is a knock. It will come on and stay on if there is a sensor problem, like a failed knock sensor, that causes the chip to retard all cylinders. The light is intended to be placed somewhere that the driver can easily see it.
4) The chip starts with an ignition map that is close to stock (with the WOT map integrated into the cruise map).
5) The chip will gradually advance each cylinder individually until it detects knocks in a cylinder. It will then retard that specific cylinder until no more knocks are detected. Once it completes that process, it will not advance the cylinder again. It will retard the cylinder further if more knocks are detected. I think that there is also an option to get a chip that will continually attempt to advance the timing very very slowly.
6) To reset the chip and cause it to "forget" the learned ignition timings and start over, power must be removed from the chip. Either by disconnecting the battery, or disconnecting the EZK plug. Ken recommends doing that regularly (at least once or twice a year) in case the chip has learned an inappropriate ignition timing from bad gas or environmental conditions.
7) Custom ignition tunes can be applied to the chip by Ken. You can take your SharkTuned ignition map and send it to him. He'll put that onto the chip for you as a starting point for the learning logic to work from.
8) The LH/fuel chip is not affected. You can leave the stock chip in place, or SharkTune it.


In my opinion, this is an outstanding upgrade for a 928 that is stock, or has exhaust modifications. He says that it would probably be ok for a boosted 928 that has 5 or less psi, but personally I wouldn't chance it.

I wish that there was something like this that could be programmed by the end user with our own parameters. And I wish that there was an LH version that let us set AFR targets other than 14.7 for individual cells in the fuel map. But, barring that, this is a really great upgrade for non boosted cars.
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User avatar
By ALKada
#19626
Just got back from a test drive.

1) Ken is right, you most likely won’t fry the chip or board if you install the chip backwards. :)
2) Everything previously mentioned is true. These chips frankly not only probably enhance the gains from my Xpipe, they feel great above 3,000 RPM. 3, 4th and 5th gear rocket the car now. What a difference.
3) I can probably change these chips out now in under 15 mins... practice makes perfect. ;)
4) absolutely money well spent, one of the best “bang for the buck” upgrades you will get for a stock/lightly modified setup.

Thanks Ken, for the great chips and service!

MY CAR: 89 S4 Porken S4 chip, Xpipe
SeanR liked this
User avatar
By Shifted
#19690
That's awesome! And I imagine that it will get better as it learns.

Do you have any quantitative data? Even from a phone based performance app or something?
User avatar
By ALKada
#19707
I wish that I did have something prior to installation to provided some hard numbers. It’s all seat feel. I drive the car everyday and it’s not my wishful imagination, as you previously attested. Maybe someone in the 928 group will post up a pre and post dyno results.

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